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Thread: Iodine: a discussion, and perhaps a civilized debate page 30

  1. #291
    JamesS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwynn View Post
    Welcome, James. I am glad you are posting here.

    Gwynn
    Thanks Gwynn for the welcome.

  2. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danielfire View Post
    I think there were some iodine anaphylactic deaths (medically) reported here in the news in Australia as the inquests played out. It had something to do with being injected as part of a medical scan. I will find the links.
    I wonder though if it was not the form of iodine the person had a reaction to instead of iodine in general. For example, people can be allergic to sulfites but not sulfur. Therefore, how the sulfur is bound makes a huge difference.

  3. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinNM View Post
    Maybe, but she's entertaining about it, and that ALWAYS makes it okay in my own personal, humble opinion.

    I'm not sure why PB is the one getting hammered here. I've gone back and skimmed JamesS responses. He does present interesting info, but it seems to me that it's done with just a hint of condescension because we don't know said info. His vaunted 33 years in the medical industry (he didn't say as what) seem to trump anyone else's experience and if we don't agree with him that doctors and the medical establishment are evil money grubbing test and pill pushers, then we are just idiots. That's just my take on the way his posts are written. I admit right up front I didn't read all of them all of the way through, as my eyes glazed over just a bit.
    My experience has nothing to do with "trumping" someone else's experience as you put it nor to insinuate that anyone here is stupid. The point of stating my years in medicine is simply to acknowledge that I do understand medicine and the human body. Would you want to get your medical advice from your mechanic?

    And why do you think this thread even got started? Ah, that's right. Because someone with no medical background, and no comprehension of how the body works was advocating poisonous levels of iodine and was jumping on the iodism symptoms being the mythical "bromine detox" to get people to take even higher, dangerous levels of iodine.

    I am sorry you feel so threatened by the fact that I have so many years in medicine and do a hell of a lot of medical research from medical journals as part of my job. But bottom line is that NOBODY is forcing you to read my posts. So skip my posts if you do not like what I have to say.

    That is all I really have to say about it. This thread is not about me and I don't want it to become about me. And I don't want to waste anymore time getting drug down in to mud addressing posts that are designed to attack my character.

  4. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danielfire View Post
    Nah, not nice to be a bitch to a newbie like that, particularly one who knows what he is on about and isnt tapping away putting it on this forum for his own benefit. I really hope he comes back.

    anyway - here is the link to the Iodine adverse reaction article, there are a few articles you could find, but this gives the gist.

    Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
    In the one case they describe that really does not sound like an allergy. They say the man clutched his chest before going unconscious. I would speculate the the sudden surge of iodine over stimulated the thyroid forcing the heart in to hyper drive causing heart failure. And he could have had a weak heart to begin with for all we know.

  5. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesS View Post
    Thanks.

    If you want to post a link to what you want me to respond to specifically I will take a look. My time is really limited and I don't want to spend a lot of time searching through the whole forum.
    That's OK man, you have given us plenty of information and I am just glad you are back and will be around.

  6. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesS View Post
    In the one case they describe that really does not sound like an allergy. They say the man clutched his chest before going unconscious. I would speculate the the sudden surge of iodine over stimulated the thyroid forcing the heart in to hyper drive causing heart failure. And he could have had a weak heart to begin with for all we know.
    Interesting take, I will keep an eye out for the formal findings. Thanks again

  7. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by chahaya View Post
    Just chiming on soy consumption by the Japanese and other Asian cultures. The types of soy that Japanese consume are mostly fermented soy, e.g. natto and miso soup. Even their soya sauce are fermented (it's not just stuff added with salt). They do consume tofu, which is the perhaps the only unfermented soy product that they consume in relatively larger amounts. In other Asian countries, we do consume a form of fermented tofu, fermented beancurd to be exact, it's an acquired taste and it smells funky (and I happen to quite like it). The Indonesians have a soy staple called tempeh (also fermented). The Taiwanese love their stinky tofu (also fermented tofu).

    Japanese don't really consume soy milk, as far as I recall (visited there twice and my brother used to live there). That said, soy milk is consumed in other Asian countries, e.g. Southeast Asia (we are not known for our longevity like the Japanese, by the way), however it is not something that we drink it everyday. Personally I don't drink it now as it is over-processed commercially, with added sugar and stuff. I do fondly remember my aunt used to make soy milk by grinding a granite mortar in the past.

    I think the soy usage in Western diets is pretty different. Soy milk is used for everything, and everywhere, and even used as replacement for infant formulas. There's processed (unfermented) soy in everything, e.g. tofu burgers, and the likes. The amount of unfermented soy intake is really high (in comparison to the Japanese). And I don't think fermented soy is consumed much in Western diets. Anyway, I don't know the actual chemical mechanics behind fermented soy and unfermented soy products, I just want to highlight that there's a difference in the types of soy that the Japanese take though.
    Actually there is not as much difference between fermented soy and processed soy as people think. That is just marketing hype. The compounds that people complain about in unfermented soy such as phytoestrogens, phytic acid, trypsin inhibitors, etc. are not only reduced by fermentation, but also by cooking. Products such as soy milk are subjected to high heat reducing or eliminating these compounds just like fermentation.

    End of my 2 cents on soy. Now I want to pick your brains for some questions that I have...

    Quote Originally Posted by chahaya View Post
    You have mentioned that "Estrogen appears to only be a growth factor for already existing cancers", can you shed some light how that works?
    Simply being exposed to high levels of estrogen will not induce cancers. If that were the case then any woman that has ever been put on ERT for example and all of us that are exposed daily to environmental xenoestrogens that are tens to hundreds of thousands of times stronger than human estrogens would have cancer. Clearly this is not the case. Therefore, the estrogen either has to be a co-factor in the development or a growth factor after the fact.

    There is evidence that estrogen may be a co-factor in the development of some cancers through the activation of viral oncogenes. These viruses cannot induce cancer on their own though. First of all viruses require sufficient immune suppression to become active and take hold. Secondly they require activators. For example, we have all heard the myth of how sunlight causes skin cancer. Actually sunlight helps produce anti-cancer vitamin D. On the other hand sunlight can also activate HPV in the skin cells activating them inducing carcinogenesis. Therefore, it is the virus that causes the cancer, but they require a "key" (activator) to turn them on to where they can induce carcinogenesis. Another common activator for viral oncogenes are hormones. Progesterone for example activates oncogenic human papilloma viruses (HPVs). HPVs have been found to induce cervical, vaginal, vulvar, breast, penile, prostate, ano-genital, skin, oropharynx, esophageal and laryngo- pharyngeal cancers. Estrogens may also activate some viral oncogenes.

    As for the role in existing cancers read this site since it gives a pretty good explanation:

    Estrogen Receptors/SERMs - National Cancer Institute


    Quote Originally Posted by chahaya View Post
    Would estrogen be a growth factor for cysts and fibroids? Iodine seem to have some good results on FBD specifically; could it be because of its estrogen blocking effects? What advice would you give to someone with FBD and uterine fibroids?
    Cysts are simply fluid filled sacs so estrogen would not likely play a role here.

    As far as fibroids, yes they are definitely influenced by estrogen levels. And yes, it is the iodine blocking effects of iodine that allow iodine to help with their reduction. But I have seen some people expand this claim in to this meaning that iodine deficiency is also the cause of fibroids. Just because iodine can help with fibroids this does not mean an iodine deficiency is the cause of the fibroids. This would be like saying just because chemotherapy can help with some cancers that cancer therefore is caused by a lack of chemotherapy.

    To address fibroids my first suggestion would be to utilize digestive bitters. These are simply bitter tasting herbs, and yes they do have to come in to contact with the tongue to work. When the bitter receptors on the tongue are stimulated this in turn stimulates the vagus nerve. The stimulation of the vagus nerve in turn increases stomach acid, bile secretions and pancreatic enzyme release, which is why they are called digestive bitters. Bitters also increase liver function, and one role of the liver is to break down excess estrogen in the system. This also reduces cholesterol, which is the precursor for hormones. And it is also great for reducing the risk of gallstones, which women are more prone to due to the higher levels of estrogen and progesterone. Anyway, you can buy bitters at any health food store or a pinch of any bitter herb like gentian, or any bitter tasting food like bitter melon will work. If you get bitters at a health food store ignore the directions. They usually recommend a teaspoon of bitters, but many have herbs in them that I would not recommend at that dose such as anthraquinone stimulant laxative and berberine herbs. I recommend a half dropper full on the tongue before meals. Start out with once a day and slowly work up to three times a day. And drink plenty of water throughout the day since stimulation of the vagus nerve will have a strong "cleansing" effect on the body.

    Bitters also help to reduce body fat, which is also a source of estrogen for the body.

    My next suggestion would be either increasing your B vitamin intake through food or a B50 complex. Certain B vitamins are required for the process of methylation needed by the liver to break down the excess estrogens. Now the catch. Many people are low on stomach acid as acid levels decline with age. If they are taking antacids, acid blockers (proton pump inhibitors) or alkalinizers such as alkaline waters this can further reduce stomach acid. And if low on stomach acid you will not be able to absorb the B vitamins needed for methylation since these B vitamins are acid dependent for absorption. If you do have low stomach acid then I recommend the beet leaf extract trimethylglycine (TMG), which is a great and safe methyl donor.

    Something else that can help are cultured foods and fibers to help build up the flora. As the liver breaks down the estrogens in to estrogen metabolites the metabolites are then broken down further by the flora to prevent reabsorption of the metabolites, which can contribute to estrogen load.

    And since fat cells produce estrogen, if you are overweight losing weight slowly will help. I say "slowly" since rapid weight loss increases the risk of gallstone formation.

    Quote Originally Posted by chahaya View Post
    Finally, thanks for joining this thread, your recent posts are really interesting!
    Thanks.

  8. #298
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    I've just been reading through some of the Iodine info in the link JamesS posted earlier:
    MedCapsules Forum - Iodine Safety/Issues
    The paper I'm currently reading is history of excess Iodine side effects:
    http://www.iodine4health.com/researc...e_toxicity.pdf

    Well worth going through some of this for anyone contemplating Iodine supplements,
    there's nothing like being informed, has enlightened me quite a bit.

  9. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    So, let me get this straight. You would just totally ignore the focus of this thread, iodine, a topic on which we completely agree, and instead have it out with me about some tangent side topics?

    If you would like to start a "Soy:Is it dangerous or not?", an "Are doctors evil money grubbers?" and a "Chemo: Does it work?" thread, great. I just don't think those should be the focus here.
    Fine, so start them with your views and I will address them. Just let me know when and where you start the threads so I know you want to discuss these topics and I don't have to search for them. I have not looked around this site other than this thread and will not likely unless I have some spare time.
    Last edited by JamesS; 08-10-2012 at 02:49 AM.

  10. #300
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    Great to have you here JamesS, much better to read your analysis than doubt whether to follow what is posted by those who shout loudest.

    I snuck a peak into Curezone and it seems insane!

    Good to have you part of the discussion, even if I usually just read it rather than engage. What you say makes a lot of sense.

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