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Thread: Iodine: a discussion, and perhaps a civilized debate page 17

  1. #161
    MarissaLinnea's Avatar
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    I just wanted to add my personal experience here. As someone who has had their thyroid tested religiously over the years and know that the normal range is for myself, I believe that supplementing with iodine has actually raised my TSH levels and has basically put me into subclinical hypothyroidism. I have been supplementing with iodine for a couple months because I was afraid I wasn't going to get enough after going Primal/Paleo.

    I had my TSH tested about 6-8 months ago with a level of 1.27. I just had my TSH tested again a couple weeks ago and returned with a level of 3.14......I have gained 10 lbs in the last two months and I'm more tired than normal. Now, it's possible that this could just be a fluke or coincidence, but I really felt like something wasn't right, mostly because I bumped my workouts way up when I started gaining and it hasn't made a difference, and in fact I continue gaining. I have always been fit and when I have fallen out of shape in the past, it doesn't take much exercise for the pounds to start falling off. I usually don't even have to alter my diet much to get great results because I push myself really hard physically. After spending the last month doing more exercise and not losing or staying the same, but in fact gaining, I knew something wasn't right. My TSH has always been from .7 to 1.5 and that is normal for me. The only thing I can think of that would have affected it so much is supplementing with idodine. That being said, I am no longer taking anymore iodine and I pray to God that my thyroid goes back to normal and I can get this weight off. And because my TSH isn't out of the "normal range" by the labs standards, my doc refuses to do anymore tests for me. It's extremely frustrating.

    So, make sure you do your research and talk with your doctor before supplementing with iodine.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    How about someone start another thread "Pro's & Con's of Mammograms"

    Regarding the Iodine, I became quite interested in this and particularly as there seems to be some solid evidence that it may well help in some cases of Fibrocystic Breast Disease and there is some scientific studies to back this up.
    As for other diseases I did a bit of hunting around and outside of the obvious thyroid relationship, the best I could come up with for other diseases was anecdotal reports of improvements in CFS, Fibromyalgia & PCOS, so some individuals seem to have benefitted from iodine supplementation.
    When it comes to the crunch, I agree scientific proof is the best way to go, but everyone here must realise by now that their own direction with diet (primal/paleo) is only supported by cherry picked data and the majority of health practitioners would not support this direction for optimum health.
    AFAIK, there are no scientific studies that point to iodine as being curative that have been done since the 1950's. All "those iodine docs" are discredited simply because their successes are considered anecdotal, but those who are helped think they know better.;-) And, as you pointed out previously, there is no financial incentive for the scientific community to waste their time to address deficiency statuses.
    ...I am quite capable of discerning the quality of the data and applying an appropriate weighting dependant of the source, heck, even the so called peer reviewed studies need to be viewed with a critical eye in their study designs and conclusions.
    There are a number of factors that may be contributing to a potential deficiency, like reduction in use of iodised salt use, changes in food preparation dairy & bread both used iodine in the past, reduction of consumption of sweetbreads(thyroid gland), other organs & blood, the presence of flourides & bromides may be blocking iodine sites in the body. These points would at the very least suggest individuals should be conscious of their iodine intake in the same way they ensure adequate sun exposure for vitamin D.
    Good thinking, but I'd like to make a very small quibble - sweetbreads are thymus, not thyroid glands. They are immune enhancing glands found largely in very young animals, and I've eaten lots of calves' sweetbreads.

    I'd like to hear more on what people have to say about iodine, I don't take anything here at face value, it's just a lead in to my own investigations.
    Absolutely the wise course. See all sides, the sayers and nayers, research the available literature, then decide for yourself.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radialhead View Post
    You can play with the figures 'til the cows come home to give you any result you want. E.g. the kombu consumption may have been higher in the past, but they may have boiled most of it & poured the water away, which would mean they were getting far less iodine than now as kombu loses more of its iodine during boiling than other types.

    The point is this 13.8mg figure that's often quoted as if it's cast in stone is nothing more than a guesstimate based on apparently false assumptions. Anyone who uses it to justify taking [n]mg of iodine per day needs to know that in my opinion.
    And I take all figures quoted in most forums as statistics - and you know what they say about statistics - there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.;-) Anybody who doesn't do their own research for a bothersome or killer ailment is pretty gullible , in my book. If it sounds reasonable, has very few downsides, is lowcost and possibly beneficial, then it's n=1 time.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    How about someone start another thread "Pro's & Con's of Mammograms"

    Just to re-inforce some of the critiques as well, "Iodine is not a miracle cure all", it is just another essential nutrient to the body and a deficiency may be an aggravating factor in a number of conditions.
    There are a number of factors that may be contributing to a potential deficiency, like reduction in use of iodised salt use, changes in food preparation dairy & bread both used iodine in the past, reduction of consumption of sweetbreads(thyroid gland), other organs & blood, the presence of flourides & bromides may be blocking iodine sites in the body. These points would at the very least suggest individuals should be conscious of their iodine intake in the same way they ensure adequate sun exposure for vitamin D.
    I'd like to hear more on what people have to say about iodine, I don't take anything here at face value, it's just a lead in to my own investigations.
    By the way I haven't looked at any of the Dr Brownstein stuff as I assume that is already going to be over the top Pro Iodine.
    I agree that the mammogram stuff was a tangent. It's just a kinda "special" subject for me. Moving on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Radialhead View Post
    You can play with the figures 'til the cows come home to give you any result you want. E.g. the kombu consumption may have been higher in the past, but they may have boiled most of it & poured the water away, which would mean they were getting far less iodine than now as kombu loses more of its iodine during boiling than other types.

    The point is this 13.8mg figure that's often quoted as if it's cast in stone is nothing more than a guesstimate based on apparently false assumptions. Anyone who uses it to justify taking [n]mg of iodine per day needs to know that in my opinion.
    Yes, and who exactly are "The Japanese". One area, one age group? I think this data can be massaged any way you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    Apoptosis simply means programmed cell death. Something showing potential to cause apoptosis in cancer cells is interesting, since cancer is a problem with cells not dying when they are supposed to die. But to claim that apoptosis means cancer cell death is wrong, and Grizz's use of it to mean that is erroneous. Apoptosis is a normal cellular process.

    Words mean things, and particularly in the case of science, what they mean is very important in understanding research. That article discusses apoptosis in relation to cancer cells, but to assume from that article that the word apoptosis always means cancer cells dying is simply poor reading comprehension.
    Thank you, Owly.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecksvedge View Post
    Paleobird had no misunderstanding of what she thought Grizz said. If she had, she would have said that here, but she decided to claim that PubMed.gov is pseudo-science quackery instead.
    No, as Owly said, that is a very interesting, if very preliminary study. The quackery comment was in reference to the point NMRobin made about the links all leading back to Brownstein

    Quote Originally Posted by mom5booklover View Post
    +1
    Why take the risk. I will be getting a mammogram as soon as I hit the at risk age. There is no reason to risk it when you can possibly have a fighting chance. Weather you choose to take the holistic route or traditional route you can't fight a battle unless you know who the enemy is.
    Yay! I wish you a long, happy, and cancer free life.

  5. #165
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    So it's okay to have an iodine discussion thread with "perhaps a civilized debate" so long as people who disagree with high-dose iodine don't join in the debate? Funny, I must misunderstand what it means to debate things--I didn't think it meant "echo chamber".
    Exactly. That's what the love-in at the curezone is for. This is a place where all viewpoints are heard.

  6. #166
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarissaLinnea View Post
    I just wanted to add my personal experience here. As someone who has had their thyroid tested religiously over the years and know that the normal range is for myself, I believe that supplementing with iodine has actually raised my TSH levels and has basically put me into subclinical hypothyroidism. I have been supplementing with iodine for a couple months because I was afraid I wasn't going to get enough after going Primal/Paleo.

    I had my TSH tested about 6-8 months ago with a level of 1.27. I just had my TSH tested again a couple weeks ago and returned with a level of 3.14......I have gained 10 lbs in the last two months and I'm more tired than normal. Now, it's possible that this could just be a fluke or coincidence, but I really felt like something wasn't right, mostly because I bumped my workouts way up when I started gaining and it hasn't made a difference, and in fact I continue gaining. I have always been fit and when I have fallen out of shape in the past, it doesn't take much exercise for the pounds to start falling off. I usually don't even have to alter my diet much to get great results because I push myself really hard physically. After spending the last month doing more exercise and not losing or staying the same, but in fact gaining, I knew something wasn't right. My TSH has always been from .7 to 1.5 and that is normal for me. The only thing I can think of that would have affected it so much is supplementing with idodine. That being said, I am no longer taking anymore iodine and I pray to God that my thyroid goes back to normal and I can get this weight off. And because my TSH isn't out of the "normal range" by the labs standards, my doc refuses to do anymore tests for me. It's extremely frustrating.

    So, make sure you do your research and talk with your doctor before supplementing with iodine
    .
    Thank you, MarissaLinnea, for sharing your story. Yes, people are helped by iodine, I and the others "peeing in the pool" as DuhPrincess put it (such a mature expression), never said otherwise. Just to be careful, get real testing, know how much if any supplementation you might need and keep your doctor in the loop. Examples such as Marissa's would probably be thrown out of the curezone as "trolls". This is the good thing about an open forum. All side of the debate.

    I hope things improve for you, Marissa. Please let everyone know how you are doing.

  7. #167
    bloodorchid's Avatar
    bloodorchid is online now Senior Member
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    duhprincess, et all

    could you please tell me who is saying do not take any iodine? because i've read the previous thread and this one and i'm missing it

    granted, i do wear glasses and i'm blind as a bat without them

    so can one or all of you please let me know?
    beautiful
    yeah you are

    I mean there's so many ants in my eyes! And there are so many TVs, microwaves, radios... I think, I can't, I'm not 100% sure what we have here in stock.. I don't know because I can't see anything! Our prices, I hope, aren't too low!

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuhPrincess View Post
    And if you wanna get pissed about a doctor with a conflict of interest making money off people, the TSH Test is one of those products. It's patented and considered the "Gold Standard" for thyroid testing by those who created it, patented it plus demanded its use by all doctors. They are now making a truckload of money off it and it helps FEW people. All it does it tell the doctor how much TSH was circulating in your blood at the moment of the test--not if your body was USING it or able to CONVERT it for use by your body. Most doctors (even endos) know little about properly diagnosing hypothyroidism. Go read at StopTheThyroidMadness.com if you want to really learn about the thyroid and uneducated doctors.
    Just for clarification:
    TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone) is not a thyroid hormone. It is pituitary hormone that signals the thyroid to make hormones. Additionally, TSH isn't "used" by the body or converted into any thyroid hormone.

  9. #169
    ljbprrfmof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paysan View Post
    I'm not seeing any image circled in red!!! I hate being the dunce, but honestly, I don't even see the bubbles, John. However, I shall mess up my quoting trying your way as well.;-)
    There was a red circle in the image I had included with my post. The image was of the reply box that you do your typing in, that I had added the circle too. You will not find the circle on the forum's reply box. The box has several buttons across the top and the second to last one is the button to push if you want to include a quote. The last one is the ABC button to check your spelling.

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    Eased into a primal diet starting at Christmas 2011. Goal weight - 205 started: 240 pounds waist 40, now 227 pounds and waist 38 Summer 2012 - weight =215 and waist is actually still 39"
    ljbprrfmof = LJ = Little John = John

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuhPrincess View Post
    ...
    So again, I will ask that those of you who refuse to use iodine supplements for bromide detoxing or other health concerns go start another thread that is devoted entirely to "Haters of Iodine Supplementation and Outright Disdain for Those Who Use It." Then you can stop peeing in our pool where we want to simply discuss iodine with each other so we can make good choices as we use it. And I promise I won't come to your hateful thread and pee in YOUR pool. And if you aren't mature enough to accept something so reasonable, I again say that it has to be a truly hateful person that would refuse that compromise. Many of you are like a fly buzzing near my ear with no real purpose to be here other than to continue buzzing & biting until I finally get frustrated enough to swat you. Grizz said and it wouldn't work to start a new thread because you'd all come here and do the same thing again. When I read PB's very first post here bashing Brownstein, I almost posted, "Grizz called it!" I resisted at the time but then went overboard swatting later. (Quote by PaleoBird: "Dr. Brownstein is in the business of selling iodine and supplements. Is it any wonder he advocates such a high dosage of iodine and says the supplements are "required"?")
    ...
    Who has said that they refuse to take iodine, and that they hate iodine supplementation and have disdain for those who take it? Here's a helpful hint for you. If you have to misrepresent what someone said in order to make your point, then you probably don't have much of a point.

    And what do you mean, your pool? This is a general thread about iodine, not an iodine supplementation advocacy thread, or a thread specifically about the Brownstein approach. It was started by Sceptic, who in the first post stated that he is supplementing with a moderate amount of iodine. There were 60 posts in the thread before you ever joined in (with a particularly nasty diatribe in post #61). Funny how the thread has turned south since that point. But here you are accusing others of "peeing in your pool", and suggesting that they should start a different thread. Your level of egocentricity is simply breathtaking.

    Here is a sincere suggestion. I would suggest that you start a new thread, titled "Dr. Brownstein Iodine Protocol". That would make the thread specific to that topic, and I think it would enable you to have more of the type of discussion you're looking for.

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