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Thread: Iodine: a discussion, and perhaps a civilized debate page 13

  1. #121
    bloodorchid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Also, your post seems to have a 'I wish you wouldn't post here grizz' subtext. Which seemsm like it's trying to shut down a dissenting opinion. Or have I mischaracterised your post?
    if he'd just calm down..
    beautiful
    yeah you are

    I mean there's so many ants in my eyes! And there are so many TVs, microwaves, radios... I think, I can't, I'm not 100% sure what we have here in stock.. I don't know because I can't see anything! Our prices, I hope, aren't too low!

  2. #122
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    Hi,

    There is no mention of selenomethionine being used in conjunction with such high amounts of SSKI being administered for the correction of sportrichosis from this RETRO-ANALYSIS of medical records for 24 years. But it is interesting, and I’m sure people, who have contracted this disease have a fondness for SSKI.

    Abstract:

    BACKGROUND:
    Sporotrichosis is a subacute or chronic disease caused by a dimorphic fungus, Sporothrix schenckii. The first and most traditional treatment is potassium Iodide in satured solution (SSKI) used by DE BEURMANN in 1907. For its effectiveness, it is still used for cutaneous sporotrichosis.

    OBJECTIVE:
    To evaluate the treatment of cutaneous sporotrichosis with SSKI in relation to clinical cure, side effects, length of treatment and reactivation.

    METHODS:
    We conducted a retrospective analysis of medical records over a 24-year period (1981-2005). Patients of all ages who were treated in the hospitalīs division of dermatology were included in the study providing that they had a positive culture of S. schenckii. Satured solution of Potassium Iodide (3 grams to 6 grams per day) was the treatment prescribed. For children, half of the dose was prescribed.

    RESULTS:
    The lymphocutaneous disease was prevalent, the cure rate was 94.7%, side effects were described in 5.5% of the cases, mean length of treatment was 3.5 months and possible reactivation was observed in 11.1%.

    CONCLUSION:

    SSKI is an effective drug, with many side effects, but with low frequency. Resolution was for maximum six months of treatment. SSKI has been found to be a very effective drug in this retrospective study of culture-proven cases of cutaneous and lymphocutaneous sporotrichosis. It should be used as first drug of choice especially in resource-limited settings.

    Sporotrichosis (also known as "Rose gardener's disease"[1]) is a disease caused by the infection of the fungus Sporothrix schenckii.[2] This fungal disease usually affects the skin, although other rare forms can affect the lungs, joints, bones, and even the brain. Because roses can spread the disease, it is one of a few diseases referred to as rose-thorn or rose-gardeners' disease.[3]

    Because S. schencki is naturally found in soil, hay, sphagnum moss, and plants, it usually affects farmers, gardeners, and agricultural workers.[2] It enters through small cuts and abrasions in the skin to cause the infection. In case of sporotrichosis affecting the lungs, the fungal spores enter through the respiratory pathways. Sporotrichosis can also be acquired from handling cats with the disease; it is an occupational hazard for veterinarians.

    Sporotrichosis progresses slowly - the first symptoms may appear 1 to 12 weeks (average 3 weeks) after the initial exposure to the fungus. Serious complications can also develop in patients who have a compromised immune system.

    Cutaneous sporotrichosis... [Rev Inst Med Trop Sao Paulo. 2011 Mar-Apr] - PubMed - NCBI


    t2t

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quarry View Post
    Ahh, when was I purporting to engage with the logic? Not.

    Well just add me to the list of people who complain that you think this is your forum and you are smug and patronising. *shrug* my opinion.
    I don't believe anyone ever said opinions were not allowed or, indeed, welcomed. This is a public forum, after all. When posters run into trouble, or patronization, if you will (although the use of that term could be put up for debate, again based on opinion), is when definitive statements are made without any kind of objective proof to back them up.

    I'm delighted that Grizz's neighbor had such remarkable results with iodine and her FBD. There is documentation that orally ingested iodine works on that. I'm disturbed at the possibility that there are doctors in the world who would tell a woman to live with it or cut her breasts off. I'm not going to say that's not true because I'm not there to see the doc myself, but I am disturbed by the possibility.

    When someone is so passionate about something such as iodine it's great to see. What concerns me again, though, is the statement that was made I suggest one of you people who are so loudly complaining about iodine and calling me a nut job start writing up your own Internet Document with your best research in support of iodine. (I never called the writer a nut job for what it's worth.) What that writer has either forgotten or did not know to begin with is that true clinical research does not or should not have an agenda to support something. You have a hypothesis. You think A might work to get result B. You try A. If it works, great. Let's do it again and see if we can repeat that. If it doesn't work, rats, let's do it again to see if we did something wrong. If it continually does not work, then double rats and we need to go back and revisit our hypothesis.

    Much like being a writer who falls in love with their own words and can never change them, a truly objective researcher can never fall so in love with his or her own subject that they are unable to see any result that does not fully support their own somewhat tunnelled vision.

    I do wonder if, at the seminar that is being organized at the church, if someone questions their "research" will they be called a troll and banned from the rest of the seminar.

  4. #124
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    [QUOTE=Paleobird;921075]
    Seriously, does anyone really believe that any doctor would say in so many words, "Learn to live with your breasts or cut them off"?
    QUOTE]

    Actually, I can tell you as twenty year breast cancer activist, I have met many patients with painful fibrocystic breast disease who have received the advice to live with them or have a subcutaneous mastectomies. While visiting my mother in the hospital, her 30 year-old roommate had surgery for just such a procedure with the intention of having implants. Her body rejected the implants and so she is left with deflated flaps of skin.

    England has clinics for breast pain. Mayo Clinic has shown that some forms of fibrocystic breast disease are precursors to breast cancer. But breast pain is not taken seriously. It has been considered unrelated to breast cancer and nothing to worry about. I was told my fibrocystic breasts were normal. Then they turned into breast cancer. In animals, if you can reverse breast disease/inflammation, you can stop the progression to cancer.

    In following breast pain patients for seven years, I've never had one whose breast disease did not completely reverse once the correct and complete iodine regimen was followed. I'm sure there are many women with subcutaneous mastectomies who are hearing about iodine too late.
    Last edited by LynneF; 08-05-2012 at 10:41 AM.

  5. #125
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    On the previous thread, I argued that the best way to convince medical professionals of the need to increase iodine intake was to conduct well-designed clinical trials – indeed, this is the only real way of finding out whether such a need even exists. Of course, funding is a problem.

    The National Institute for Health Research in the UK takes suggestions from members of the public as well as researchers for topics to research. Does anyone (LynneF, for example) fancy putting together a (sane) research proposal on iodine in relation to a specific health topic, such as fibromyalgia, for funding?

  6. #126
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    I only have my own experience tor draw from, but I can promise you that doctors Will suggest removing the breasts when you have severe FBD. It is the last thing to do after you try every kind of birth control, pain meds, antidepressants and a diet that cuts out caffeine, animal products and processed food. (cutting out caffeine did help a bit everything else made it worse)

    When I started taking iodine I was most interested in the heavy metal detox. I never expected it to help the FBD. I had given up on finding help for that years ago. So I was pleasantly shocked when the pain was significantly reduced in 24 hours of taking iodine. (and getting better ever day) I'm so glad this information came to my attention.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammies View Post
    To be completely fair here though, mammogram use for detection of breast cancer is quite controversial. Do I recall correctly that you started your mammograms before age 50? Really that goes against what is supported by the data. So you did what you thought was right for you, in spite of what science supported. That is every persons right. Whether that be for iodine use or mammograms.
    There are a variety of guidelines, not just one that is "supported by the data". My HMO goes with the ACS recommendations outlined below.

    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    The ACS mammogram guidelines call for yearly mammogram screening beginning at age 40 for women at average risk of breast cancer. Meantime, the ACS says the breast self-exam is optional in breast cancer screening.

    According to the USPSTF, women who have screening mammograms die of breast cancer less frequently than do women who don't get mammograms. However, the USPSTF says the benefits of screening mammograms don't outweigh the harms for women ages 40 to 49. Potential harms may include false-positive results that lead to unneeded breast biopsies and accompanying anxiety and distress."
    Mammogram guidelines: What's changed? - MayoClinic.com

    As far as worry about "irradiating breasts"
    "An average of 70 millirems—roughly the dose you'd receive from your normal, everyday environment over a period of two and a half months. Most of our lifetime exposure to radiation comes from radon produced by decaying uranium in soil and rocks. Enough of this gas gets trapped in your house to deliver about 200 millirems per year. Food, which incorporates uranium from the soil, adds to this total, as do air travel, smoking, and radioactive atoms inside your body. But that's no reason to worry: Studies have shown no increased risk of cancer among people experiencing as many as 1,000 millirems per year of background radiation. (As a general rule, though, you're better off with less exposure.)"
    How dangerous is the radiation from a mammogram? - Slate Magazine

    Basically, we are always being exposed to radiation... nothing to be done about it. A mammogram isn't really going to hurt anything.
    Biopsies are no fun but I would rather have the "harm" of that than the harm of being dead.
    Sensible info about "irradiation". Basically, calm down.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobinNM View Post
    I don't believe anyone ever said opinions were not allowed or, indeed, welcomed. This is a public forum, after all. When posters run into trouble, or patronization, if you will (although the use of that term could be put up for debate, again based on opinion), is when definitive statements are made without any kind of objective proof to back them up.

    True clinical research does not or should not have an agenda to support something. You have a hypothesis. You think A might work to get result B. You try A. If it works, great. Let's do it again and see if we can repeat that. If it doesn't work, rats, let's do it again to see if we did something wrong. If it continually does not work, then double rats and we need to go back and revisit our hypothesis.

    I do wonder if, at the seminar that is being organized at the church, if someone questions their "research" will they be called a troll and banned from the rest of the seminar.
    Funny mental picture and thanks for the 101 on the scientific method that seems to be lacking around here.

    [QUOTE=LynneF;921275]
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Seriously, does anyone really believe that any doctor would say in so many words, "Learn to live with your breasts or cut them off"?
    QUOTE]
    Actually, I can tell you as twenty year breast cancer activist, I have met many patients with painful fibrocystic breast disease who have received the advice to live with them or have a subcutaneous mastectomies. While visiting my mother in the hospital, her 30 year-old roommate had surgery for just such a procedure with the intention of having implants. Her body rejected the implants and so she is left with deflated flaps of skin.

    England has clinics for breast pain. Mayo Clinic has shown that some forms of fibrocystic breast disease are precursors to breast cancer. But breast pain is not taken seriously. It has been considered unrelated to breast cancer and nothing to worry about. I was told my fibrocystic breasts were normal. Then they turned into breast cancer. In animals, if you can reverse breast disease/inflammation, you can stop the progression to cancer.

    In following breast pain patients for seven years, I've never had one whose breast disease did not completely reverse once the correct and complete iodine regimen was followed. I'm sure there are many women with subcutaneous mastectomies who are hearing about iodine too late.
    I don't doubt that mastectomy is discussed as an option failing all other treatments in severe cases of FBD. What I was doubting is the extreme callousness of the way this was allegedly said to the neighbor lady. There may have been a bit of dramatization there. Grizz is known for his vivid storytelling about this and other unmentionable subjects.

    Also a subcutaneous mastectomy is not the same thing as "cut your breasts off". It is taking out the underlying tissue while preserving the skin and nipple, then replacing it with an implant leaving minimal scarring. Yes, rejection of implants does happen but very rarely. My reconstruction was done with tissue transplanted up from my tummy. This is another option to avoid implant rejection.

    And we have already been over the subject of FBD and cancer. The same breasts that are susceptible to one are susceptible to the other. But FBD does not cause or become cancer. They are often found together but correlation=/=causation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zophie View Post
    I only have my own experience tor draw from, but I can promise you that doctors Will suggest removing the breasts when you have severe FBD. It is the last thing to do after you try every kind of birth control, pain meds, antidepressants and a diet that cuts out caffeine, animal products and processed food. (cutting out caffeine did help a bit everything else made it worse)

    When I started taking iodine I was most interested in the heavy metal detox. I never expected it to help the FBD. I had given up on finding help for that years ago. So I was pleasantly shocked when the pain was significantly reduced in 24 hours of taking iodine. (and getting better ever day) I'm so glad this information came to my attention.
    Exactly. It is a last ditch option that may be offered, not something that evil doctors get some kind of perverse joy in doing.
    Zophie, I am so glad that this is working for you.

  8. #128
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    Paleobird,

    You need to read the research before ruling out the connection between fibrocystic disease and breast cancer. Consider me out of this discussion as it's pointless when one person is offering opinion and the other is offering evidence.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zophie View Post
    I only have my own experience tor draw from, but I can promise you that doctors Will suggest removing the breasts when you have severe FBD. It is the last thing to do after you try every kind of birth control, pain meds, antidepressants and a diet that cuts out caffeine, animal products and processed food. (cutting out caffeine did help a bit everything else made it worse)

    When I started taking iodine I was most interested in the heavy metal detox. I never expected it to help the FBD. I had given up on finding help for that years ago. So I was pleasantly shocked when the pain was significantly reduced in 24 hours of taking iodine. (and getting better ever day) I'm so glad this information came to my attention.

    Zophie,

    Several years ago when I attended the last Iodine Conference one of the long-time iodine MDs said his teaching hospital research group had put together a clinical trial proposal for breast cancer patients using iodine as an adjuvant therapy. Keep in mind this is a very conservative OB-GYN. The proposal was turned down by the review board. He told me they were being offered a program where iodine would be used with chemotherapy on one group and with chemotherapy and no iodine on the other. Ugh.

    He also said another teaching hospital had a proposal in the works. I haven't been in contact with him recently to find out if these trials are going anywhere--though the medical brain power spans at least five countries.

    My feeling is the Grass Roots Iodine Movement has made huge progress in seven years. Traditional medicine as we know it is fading because patient activists have learned to read the research and discuss it with each other. The place for clinical trials for something so benign/profitless as iodine is unlikely to get much traction due to lack of incentive. Given the mass experimentation and research on the iodine groups, we have created our own peer review. Thank you, Curezone, the Yahoo Iodine Group and Breast Cancer Choices for attracting all the right talent.

    Mayo Clinic would be the ideal place to have a trial because they're aware of the progressive nature of benign breast disease to atypical and malignant cells. But one of the benign breast disease iodine success women who was a patient there told them about her iodine success and they weren't interested.

    A true controlled experiment may need to take place out of the country because the US is still proceeding with the discredited Woolf Chaikoff Effect asumptions. Somebody would have to underwrite the study and hire a qualified Principal Investigator. The study would have to use the right product in the right dosages. Oversight would have to be bulletproof.

    I have absolutely no doubt we will prevail on iodine for breast disease and breast cancer going mainstream. You just can't ignore success.

    Lynne
    Last edited by LynneF; 08-05-2012 at 01:52 PM.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by LynneF View Post
    Paleobird,

    You need to read the research before ruling out the connection between fibrocystic disease and breast cancer. Consider me out of this discussion as it's pointless when one person is offering opinion and the other is offering evidence.
    The evidence backing up what I am saying was already given. Multiple times. I didn't think everyone needed to see it again. Maybe I could dig back through these threads and find it for you.

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