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Thread: Iodine: a discussion, and perhaps a civilized debate page 11

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    There is a lot of doctor documented articles on Iodine killing cancer cells. The process is called apoptosis.

    Read all about it here, chapter Cancer.
    http://tinyurl.com/iodine-references

    Grizz
    Actually, no, that's not correct. According to Merriam Webster Apoptosis is "a genetically determined process of cell self-destruction that is marked by the fragmentation of nuclear DNA, is activated either by the presence of a stimulus or by the removal of a stimulus or suppressing agent, is a normal physiological process eliminating DNA-damaged, superfluous, or unwanted cells (as immune cells targeted against the self in the development of self-tolerance or larval cells in amphibians undergoing metamorphosis), and when halted (as by genetic mutation) may result in uncontrolled cell growth and tumor formation—called also programmed cell death"

    So while iodine may indeed cause cancer cell death or any cell death, using the word apoptosis in relation to specifically that is not correct. Also, while I appreciate the time and effort you put into your "reference" link, none of those are to actual scientific, peer-reviewed articles. Give me something from the New England Journal of Medicine, Journal of Clinical Oncology, hell, I'd even take Lancet.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuhPrincess View Post
    I'm 51 and have never had a mammogram. I don't have insurance either. Even if I had insurance, I wouldn't allow anyone to radiate my breasts. And even if I did find a lump on my own, I wouldn't allow chemo or radiation. I believe that using iodine for many years now has prevented serious problems from developing in me. I have a number of friends with various serious female issues and none of them ever supplemented with iodine. Too bad you didn't detox bromides a long time ago before you ended up with cancer. I'm not ready to take that risk knowing what I know now.

    You are now attempting to destroy another thread that could help educate those who are interested in learning how to safely use iodine to detox dangerous bromides. I personally wouldn't want that on my conscience.

    I dare you to stop using ANY product that profits anybody else. See how long you can make it. You think someone didn't make a ton of money on your surgery or chemo?? Why did you not refuse poisonous chemo for that reason--since you have a problem with doctors making money--or is it just CERTAIN doctors you resent making money off their expertise?

    Someone has to have a lot of hatred or jealousy in their heart to want to see others suffer needlessly with any or all of those health issues when Iodine is a effective & affordable treatment for many who use it. .

    Now I will go take my evening dose of Iodoral and ATP Cofactors. You're inspired me just like a Poster Child would for "What Can Happen When You're Iodine Deficient" or "Got Bromides?" I'm more motivated than ever to not end up with cancer cuz I've got a lotta livin' to do! And if I ever had breast cancer in the past, I would be sure to use Iodoral to prevent it from returning if at all possible. But that's just me.
    I found this post disturbing not only because of its "neener, neener, neener!" attitude about my cancer, but mostly because it is an example of the kind of willful ignorance that is too prevalent. I do not mean to single this individual out, but am addressing this post as representative of a pattern.

    First of all, she has no insurance. For that I am sorry. I have always agreed that our insurance system sucks. But then she proudly states that she is 51 and has never had a mammogram and would never let them "radiate" her breasts (i.e.have a mammogram) or "allow" chemo or radiation even if she found a lump on her own.

    So, basically, by the time you would know something was wrong under these circumstances, it would be too late to do anything about it. Then such a person's grieving loved ones could point at the "ineffectiveness" of standard medical care. Believe me, if you are really faced with the choice between death and chemo, you will 'allow" the chemo.

    But in the meantime, like an ostrich blissfully unaware, she can state as "fact" that there is nothing wrong with her and that it is the iodine she has to thank. She may indeed be perfectly healthy. I hope she is. But how can you infer a causation of iodine=no cancer when you won't even get a check up? Even if you are healthy is is still only correlation not causation.

    Then there are the conspiracy theories. How freedom of information is being suppressed, yada, yada and that I should feel pangs of "conscience" for keeping people from finding their "miracle cure". What I wouldn't want on my conscience is even one person being some combination of desperate and gullible enough to shun real, proven cancer cures, also known as modern medicine, in favor of snake oil. Then when that doesn't work, it is too late for the real doctors to do any good and that person dies.

    I don't post here to keep anyone away from the truth. I have experienced the truth about cancer first hand. I have been that desperate sick person trawling the internet in search of a "cure". There is a real live miracle cure but it is at the oncologists office. They cure real live people every single day and have been doing this for decades.

    Then there is the money stuff. Again. One more time, my HMO lost money on my cancer treatment. I pay the same dues regardless of what treatment I get. By the "money grubbing evil doctors" rational, they should have treated me with herbs and baking soda. They used the surgery and chemo method, even though it cost them a lot of money. Why? Because it actually works.

    Then I get accused of having a lot of hatred or jealousy in my heart and wanting to see others suffer needlessly. WTH????????
    I am trying to keep people from suffering needlessly and from being prematurely dead. Anyone reading this can believe that or not as you choose but I know in my non jealousy and hatred filled heart that it is true.

    (Yes, the above post was disturbing to me on a personal level. That's why I took a while to answer it. It represents a pattern of willful ignorance, lack of even basic scientific reasoning skills, tinfoil hat thinking, with, as bloodorchid put it, a big helping of douchebaggery. I wish we as the MDA community could find a way to grow beyond this.)

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinNM View Post
    Actually, no, that's not correct. According to Merriam Webster Apoptosis is "a genetically determined process of cell self-destruction that is marked by the fragmentation of nuclear DNA, is activated either by the presence of a stimulus or by the removal of a stimulus or suppressing agent, is a normal physiological process eliminating DNA-damaged, superfluous, or unwanted cells (as immune cells targeted against the self in the development of self-tolerance or larval cells in amphibians undergoing metamorphosis), and when halted (as by genetic mutation) may result in uncontrolled cell growth and tumor formation—called also programmed cell death"

    So while iodine may indeed cause cancer cell death or any cell death, using the word apoptosis in relation to specifically that is not correct. Also, while I appreciate the time and effort you put into your "reference" link, none of those are to actual scientific, peer-reviewed articles. Give me something from the New England Journal of Medicine, Journal of Clinical Oncology, hell, I'd even take Lancet.


    This^^^^^ is what I mean about basic scientific ignorance. If she hadn't corrected Grizz on this, how many people would have read it and thought they know what apoptosis meant. And thought that reference link proved that iodine cures cancer. Iodine kills some cells in a petri dish, so what? Iodine kills germ cells on your skin, that why it is used as a topical disinfectant. That doesn't make it a cancer cure.

  4. #104
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    Paleobird, here is some more scientific ignorance.

    Molecular iodine induces caspase-independent apo... [J Biol Chem. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

    Molecular iodine induces caspase-independent apoptosis in human breast carcinoma cells involving the mitochondria-mediated pathway.

    Abstract

    Molecular iodine (I2) is known to inhibit the induction and promotion of N-methyl-n-nitrosourea-induced mammary carcinogenesis, to regress 7,12-dimethylbenz(a)anthracene-induced breast tumors in rat, and has also been shown to have beneficial effects in fibrocystic human breast disease. Cytotoxicity of iodine on cultured human breast cancer cell lines, namely MCF-7, MDA-MB-231, MDA-MB-453, ZR-75-1, and T-47D, is reported in this communication. Iodine induced apoptosis in all of the cell lines tested, except MDA-MB-231, shown by sub-G1 peak analysis using flow cytometry. Iodine inhibited proliferation of normal human peripheral blood mononuclear cells; however, it did not induce apoptosis in these cells. The iodine-induced apoptotic mechanism was studied in MCF-7 cells. DNA fragmentation analysis confirmed internucleosomal DNA degradation. Terminal deoxynucleotidyl transferase-mediated dUTP nick-end labeling established that iodine induced apoptosis in a time- and dose-dependent manner in MCF-7 cells. Iodine-induced apoptosis was independent of caspases. Iodine dissipated mitochondrial membrane potential, exhibited antioxidant activity, and caused depletion in total cellular thiol content. Western blot results showed a decrease in Bcl-2 and up-regulation of Bax. Immunofluorescence studies confirmed the activation and mitochondrial membrane localization of Bax. Ectopic Bcl-2 overexpression did not rescue iodine-induced cell death. Iodine treatment induces the translocation of apoptosis-inducing factor from mitochondria to the nucleus, and treatment of N-acetyl-L-cysteine prior to iodine exposure restored basal thiol content, ROS levels, and completely inhibited nuclear translocation of apoptosis-inducing factor and subsequently cell death, indicating that thiol depletion may play an important role in iodine-induced cell death. These results demonstrate that iodine treatment activates a caspase-independent and mitochondria-mediated apoptotic pathway.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecksvedge View Post
    I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not... That actually was an interesting study and thank you for finding it and posting it.

    Let's revisit the whole "scientific ignorance" question, though. You posted a scientific study that had very interesting results on breast cancer cell lines in a laboratory setting. It's a good start and it definitely has some merit. It does NOT, however, state anywhere that orally ingested iodine "Successfully Treats Breast Cancer" as was implied in an earlier post, which I objected to. On that same track, a response to me included this statement: "Read all about it here, chapter Cancer" and included a link to that writer's iodine resource document. After I got through all of the script debugging notifications and actually was able to click on some of the links, it was very apparent that the "resources" were anecdotal and led back to Dr. Brownstein's books and advertisements. I have nothing against Dr. Brownstein. I have never read his work and probably won't. I have nothing against people who want to follow his protocol. If it works for them, more power to them and I wish them well.

    What I DO have an objection to, however, is wide-ranging statements such as "iodine cures breast cancer" and then absolutely NOTHING with which to back that up. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero.

    Your link was interesting, but again, doesn't support the phrase "iodine cures breast cancer." What it does support is the knowledge that molecular iodine helped to kill some breast cancer line cells in a laboratory setting. That is good knowledge and it's a good start and I hope there are researchers out there in the world building on that.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinNM View Post
    I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not... That actually was an interesting study and thank you for finding it and posting it.

    Let's revisit the whole "scientific ignorance" question, though. You posted a scientific study that had very interesting results on breast cancer cell lines in a laboratory setting. It's a good start and it definitely has some merit. It does NOT, however, state anywhere that orally ingested iodine "Successfully Treats Breast Cancer" as was implied in an earlier post, which I objected to. On that same track, a response to me included this statement: "Read all about it here, chapter Cancer" and included a link to that writer's iodine resource document. After I got through all of the script debugging notifications and actually was able to click on some of the links, it was very apparent that the "resources" were anecdotal and led back to Dr. Brownstein's books and advertisements. I have nothing against Dr. Brownstein. I have never read his work and probably won't. I have nothing against people who want to follow his protocol. If it works for them, more power to them and I wish them well.

    What I DO have an objection to, however, is wide-ranging statements such as "iodine cures breast cancer" and then absolutely NOTHING with which to back that up. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero.

    Your link was interesting, but again, doesn't support the phrase "iodine cures breast cancer." What it does support is the knowledge that molecular iodine helped to kill some breast cancer line cells in a laboratory setting. That is good knowledge and it's a good start and I hope there are researchers out there in the world building on that.
    RobinNM are you paleobird (robin)

    you were logged in as robinnm when you replied to the above directed to paleobird, oops!

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quarry View Post
    RobinNM are you paleobird (robin)

    you were logged in as robinnm when you replied to the above directed to paleobird, oops!
    No, I'm Robin in New Mexico. I just wanted to go ahead and respond to that, even though it was directed to PaleoBird since I was part of the earlier conversation that prompted some of it.

  8. #108
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    I, the other Robin in California was out for coffee with friends while the above convo took place.
    There are two sensible people who know how to debunk pseudo-scientific quackery who both happen to be named Robin. So?
    BTW, nicely done, NM.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quarry View Post
    RobinNM are you paleobird (robin)

    you were logged in as robinnm when you replied to the above directed to paleobird, oops!
    It's a public forum... anyone can respond to any post at any time.
    That's kind of how it works.

    If something needs to be answered by one person, and one person only, it should probably be via PM...
    It would just be more effective. *shrug*
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    It's a public forum... anyone can respond to any post at any time.
    That's kind of how it works.

    If something needs to be answered by one person, and one person only, it should probably be via PM...
    It would just be more effective. *shrug*
    well, yeah! and most posts don't start "member" directed to one person!

    It was missing the patronising tone, I should have picked up on that and realised it wasn't her.

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