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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molecular Grokologist View Post
    @ Mirrorball

    Your post seems accurate to me. I might add that the insulin theory doesn't really preclude the lipotoxicity theory. It could be that fat accumulates and is locked in by insulin but eventually fills up too much and begins to spill out.
    And the way out of this conundrum? Aside from just eating less? L-Carnitine, perhaps?
    I'm still trying to understand leptin.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molecular Grokologist View Post
    @ Mirrorball

    Your post seems accurate to me. I might add that the insulin theory doesn't really preclude the lipotoxicity theory. It could be that fat accumulates and is locked in by insulin but eventually fills up too much and begins to spill out.
    Thanks for reading it. AFAIK, in normal individuals, fat is locked in as long as blood sugar (and insulin) is high, so tissues are stimulated to burn sugar instead of fat, right? When that sugar is burned, insulin levels decrease and fat is released. If you eat 500 calories of fat and carbohydrate, the carbohydrate is burned first, then the fat. As long as you can burn 500 calories, you won't gain or lose weight. So how does insulin make you fat? If you eat 1000 calories of fat and just burn 500, the excess 500 calories, even though you didn't eat any carbs, will be stored, won't they? I'm not implying it's all about calories in, calories out, but the only fuel that gets stored is the fuel you didn't burn.
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  3. #183
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    @PDL

    Well, low carb diets appear to make it better, the question is why. Fat adaptation helps corral serum FFA and burn it properly instead of having it float around causing trouble? I don't know.

    @ Mirrorball

    The hypothesis is that insulin will make the calories unavailable, thus making you tired/hungry and making you want to eat more so that your cells can get fuel. Over time, if calories are regularly unavailable between meals, the body may downregulate metabolism, potentially exacerbating the situation. Thus: adipose buildup, hyperphagy, carb cravings and lethargy.
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  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molecular Grokologist View Post
    The hypothesis is that insulin will make the calories unavailable, thus making you tired/hungry and making you want to eat more so that your cells can get fuel. Over time, if calories are regularly unavailable between meals, the body may downregulate metabolism, potentially exacerbating the situation. Thus: adipose buildup, hyperphagy, carb cravings and lethargy.
    But how would insulin make calories unavailable between meals? In normal metabolism, insulin is high and fat is unavailable only when blood sugar is high and thus calories from carbohydrate are available. When these calories have been burned up, insulin levels drop to basal levels, which makes calories from fat available again. The only way insulin could make fat calories unavailable between meals would be if fasting insulin was elevated, but it isn't in healthy individuals. For insulin to start having an influence between meals you would already have to have a disturbed metabolism. Unless I'm missing something?
    Last edited by Mirrorball; 04-15-2010 at 10:28 PM.
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  5. #185
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    Mirrorball, you are right. It is fasting insulin that is the problem. Trouble is, how do you get a "disturbed metabolism" as you said. I see no reason to believe that carbohydrate CAUSES the problem. Even Taubes admits it has to be refined carbohydrates or somehting similar. He mentions while sugar and while flower in particular... but I put the money on a combination of neolithic agents.

  6. #186
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    Me too. Probably white sugar and white flour are the worst neolithic agents, but we can't neglect PUFA vegetable oils, and they are fats, not carbohydrates.
    Last edited by Mirrorball; 04-15-2010 at 11:08 PM.
    Height: 5'4" (1.62 m)
    Starting weight (09/2009): 200 lb (90.6 kg)
    No longer overweight (08/2010): 145 lb (65.6 kg)
    Current weight (01/2012): 127 lb (57.5 kg)

  7. #187
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    New question:

    We all know sat fat is good, but whilst we have a guideline to how many carbs are optimal, we have no indication of the upper boundaries of fats?!

    Basically today I got carried away at breakfast and ate about 100g of saturated fat content from creamed coconut, as well as my eggs etc.

    Surely not ideal? Whats the daily target?

  8. #188
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    In general, as long as you keep intake below bowel tolerance (no fatty stools) and you aren't gaining weight (it's tough but possible if you eat a LOT of fat), things should be fine. I try not to go crazy with coconut fat all in one sitting because if it's not rapidly absorbed it can depopulate your gut flora to some extent, but it's not an end-of-the-world kind of thing. There is no 'insulin' for fat that we want to keep low, and no IGFR or TOR that we want to keep from triggering too much for aging purposes.
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  9. #189
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    MG, did you ever watch those videos?

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    No, I'm afraid I completely forgot. This afternoon when I get out of lab.
    Give me liberty. Exploration of other options will be vigorously discouraged.

    Wondering something sciencey? Ask me in my Ask a Biochemist Thread

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