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Thread: IF & Protein Minimums page 2

  1. #11
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    Nick, in my case, however, my total body mass and lean body mass are close (I'm about 130 lbs, 18%BF, so about 107 lbs LM). So I'm looking at a minimum of 107 grams of protein/day.


    ... and that's no problem on days when I'm eating regular meals, but on days when I want to IF, I'm not sure what to do. If I hit, say 1/2 of my protein requirements, 1 to 3 days/week, is that risky? In other words, am I risking losing LBM?


  2. #12
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    You can get stronger without adding any muscle mass. A large part of your strength is derived from the Central Nervous System and some of it is psychological. That is why a 120 pound house wife can summon the strength to lift a weight she couldn't budge under normal conditions if her child is in danger. So I think you can lose some muscle mass or hold steady and get stronger.


    In terms of your competing goals of wanting to still lose body fat but also wanting to look bigger - you need to pick one because very few people can do both simultaneously. Even the freakishly athletic and strong guys at my gym have told me this. I've heard some people argue that you should work on adding the muscle first because it will make it easier to lose the fat later (due to higher metabolism and greater work capacity).


    My advice to you if you want to add muscle is to add calories to your diet (mostly in the form of protein and fat). You might want to add a sweet potato and/or banana to your post workout meal as well. And make sure you are getting adequate protein - maybe start with 175-200g / day.


  3. #13
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    Thanks, Conan, for the feedback.


    However, I'm not looking to put on muscle, I am simply looking to cut body fat and maintain muscle mass.


    I'm less worried about strength and more worried about asethetic. Looking leaner with muscle vs. looking skinny/flabby.


    My question is: how low can I take protein and not risk losing LBM? And for those who IF how do you ensure adequate protein while you fast?


  4. #14
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    Conan, how many calories should i be eating in a day to put on muscle? Aprox. Also, when youre trying to gain muscle do you always gain fat as well?


  5. #15
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    Brad Pilon did a post a few weeks ago about this subject. Basically an anecdotal post showing that he hasn't lost muscle mass since doing IF's.


    After reading more, and just thinking about how my body works, it seems that the 'daily' aspect of the way we think of our bodies functioning (maybe a part of CW?) isn't an accurate representation of what actually happens. Basically, our bodies are always working, we as humans operate on a 24-hour schedule, and while our bodies change on how they operate, your stomach doesn't just stop working or whatever. So, basically, I think it's more looking at your protein intake on a longer time line. I read somewhere (I don't remember where now) that they suggested making sure after breaking a fast (referring to traditional breakfast) to have at least 30g of protein, since your body needs it most then. So, when I end my ifast, i almost always have some whey protein powder and usually a larger meal than usual, so, I'm guessing overall, it ends up averaging out.


    This probably made next to no sense.


  6. #16
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    No, Tim, that makes sense. Thank you.


    So instead of assessing daily totals, it's better to look at "the big picture." I suppose that could be a weekly or even monthly "picture." That said, how does one determine a minimum amount of protein? And how does that factor in with fasting?


    Brad Pilon might not have lost any muscle, but there are so many variables that play in each individual's situation, that I can't safely bank that I wouldn't lose muscle if I fasted.


  7. #17
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    protein amount suggestions vary wildly. the author of primal body, primal mind suggests quite a bit less than what is generally recommended. If you look at more body building-based recommendations, they'll be insanely high.


    Somewhere in the middle is the suggestion of 1g of protein per lb of body weight. I haven't actually figured out amounts in awhile, but I suspect I'm doing closer to 1.3-1.5g/day of protein, so the ifast days aren't as big of a deal.


  8. #18
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    erik.cisler is offline Junior Member
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    Don't worry about catabolizing muscle during a fast. Fasting actually stimulates growth hormone secretion, which has a muscle sparing effect. Keep your fasts intermittent and no more than 24 hours (if you're worried about dipping into your muscle stores) long.


    When I fast, I always prepare by eating a big protein/fat rich meal before and after the fast. Works great for me.


  9. #19
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    Mike,


    I use the FitDay activity calculator to determine my resting metabolic rate and how many calories I burn on workout days. I've found it to be pretty accurate for me - it might underestimate calories burned just slightly (it's so hard to determine this). The nice thing about it is that you can enter your activities and how many minutes you spend at each and it will give you total calories burned.


    So my recommendation is to enter a typical day in the FitDay activity calculator to see how many calories you are burning. Then add 500 calories to that number. This should be your target caloric intake assuming you want to gain about a pound a week. Monitor your weight and your calories. If you are still losing weight try adding another 500 calories. If your weight is stable, try adding 250 calories at a time.


    It will take you some time to figure out your threshold for losing/maintaining/gaining so be patient. In terms of the added calories, I recommend that you get most of them from protein and fat. Add a sweet potato and/or banana post-workout but try not to add too many other additional carbs.


    Is it possible to gain muscle without fat? Yes, I think it is but it is also pretty rare. I think if you do it very slowly it is possible but most people are probably too impatient and when they don't see quick results they increase their calories drastically and add muscle and fat together. I'm still trying to figure out if "clean bulking" is possible and haven't really found any guidelines for it. If I do, I'll pass the info along.


  10. #20
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    Clint is offline Senior Member
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    Conan-


    Have you ever looked into the Ross Enamait info for his "clean bulk"? He did an experiment, on himself, to see if he could gain muscle without fat and keep his conditioning up. It might be right up you're alley. If you are interested, I can get you the links.


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