Are you "one of those women who don't like women?" page 7

[Gravyboat]

btw, love ya gravyboat. I just completely disagree with you.

No hard feelings.

And no, rising up and declaring for all to hear that I prefer bunless burgers isn't exactly courageous, but it does take something to decide to take an alternate path, even against the recommendation of your doctor, your coworkers, your family, and your government.

[paleo-bunny]

It makes sense to me. When your gender is socially defined in negative, weak-minded terms, and young girls are pressured into becoming vapid, 2-dimensional clotheshangers whose sole purpose in life is to attract boys, and many women grow up to be baby-crazy, gossipy housewives because that's what they were told life as a woman is all about, is it any wonder that the women who (for whatever reason) didn't end up falling into the trap feel a bit uncomfortable around and contemptuous toward those who did? They're collaborators. They appease the dominant group (men) for personal gain (social approval).

I'm sure that most of the time it is not a conscious thing, but that doesn't mean it's not the truth. Our entire culture constantly spews forth the idea that women being "feminine" is good and normal. So women do it. And they get personal social approval. But, in the process, they confirm all these stereotypes that women are shallow, vain, weak, histrionic, gold-digging, catty bitches who only think about shoes and nail polish and boys. Let me repeat that: Women get personal thumbs ups for providing evidence that their gender is weak. Capitulating to gender norms for personal gain just feeds right back into the system and makes all of us look bad. Because we're all here under this big "Woman" banner together, and confirmation bias is a powerful thing.

I know plenty of women who feel uneasy about other women who are traditionally feminine but can't really articulate why, aside from "we just don't have a lot in common". There's why. And you have every right to feel uneasy.

I also want to say: It doesn't surprise me that many (most?) of the women here don't seem to fit the typical stereotypical mold, because the courage (and/or wisdom) it takes to stand up against feminine social mandates is the same type of courage (and/or wisdom) it takes to stand up against CW dieting. Both are in every women's tv show, women's magazine, women's advertisement, etc. They're almost inextricable. And if you can see through one, it's easier to see through the other.

I'm in agreement with you totally with regard to how our gender image is represented and manipulated in society, media etc.

However, just because I disregard all that bollocks, it doesn't follow that I dislike all women. From what you say, I feel that we are generally in agreement. I reckon we both dislike only those women who play up to the system in a cynical fashion.

That said, I recognise that some women find themselves in a situation where they have to play up and conform to the system much more so than you or I do. They may be much more vunerable for one reason or another.

[sbhikes]

Speaking of which, there's something I've been wondering about as a non-american. Is the high-pitched 'OMG-culture' of american teenage girls actually real, or was it invented by Hollywood?

There's some truth to it. Just the other night I was camped at a KOA in Utah and I walked into the bathroom and three teen girls were taking up all the sinks and mirrors doing their hair. Oh my god how that brought back memories of my youth during the Farrah Fawcett '70s. All my friends and my sister were like that but not me. I just couldn't get into staring into the mirror and doing my hair and talking about boys and gossiping and talking trash about other girls.

There is a saying that two women cannot live under the same roof without fighting.

Years ago I worked in an independent living program for people with severe mental illness. All the apartments were segregated by gender. The all male apartments were calm and clean. The all female apartments were a nightmare of screaming, fighting and filth.

It makes sense to me. When your gender is socially defined in negative, weak-minded terms, and young girls are pressured into becoming vapid, 2-dimensional clotheshangers whose sole purpose in life is to attract boys, and many women grow up to be baby-crazy, gossipy housewives because that's what they were told life as a woman is all about, is it any wonder that the women who (for whatever reason) didn't end up falling into the trap feel a bit uncomfortable around and contemptuous toward those who did? They're collaborators. They appease the dominant group (men) for personal gain (social approval).

The sad thing is that they DO get personal gain from fitting in to what they're supposed to be. Look at my own sister. Because she got married (at 18 by the way) and had babies my father gave her a house for a tiny fraction of the market price. I went to college and never got a house. I even paid for my own college education.

I guess what makes me feel most like an outsider among women is that I like to have wilderness adventures. I feel at home out there. For some reason my interests make people so uncomfortable that they have to point out the discomforts of sleeping on the ground and their fears of snakes and bears. For some reason I think it makes them feel better to remind themselves how "impossible" it is to have an adventurous life. To think otherwise would invite too many regrets for living their lives in service to babies and husbands and proper femininity, I guess. My life makes most women uncomfortable, which is sad because I can't have an honest relationship with someone who is afraid of me or uncomfortable around me.

[GuineaPigQueen]

I love to say the word "misogyny". It sounds so nice coming out of your mouth, even though the definition is rather unpleasant.

I don't have anything substantial to add to this thread.

[Gravyboat]

I'm in agreement with you totally with regard to how our gender image is represented and manipulated in society, media etc.

However, just because I disregard all that bollocks, it doesn't follow that I dislike all women. From what you say, I feel that we are generally in agreement. I reckon we both dislike only those women who play up to the system in a cynical fashion.

I definitely don't dislike all women, but I do tend to avoid the ones who are decidedly feminine and enjoy "glamming up" and all that. Partly because I really don't think we'd have much in common, and partly because I just don't agree with it.

That said, I recognise that some women find themselves in a situation where they have to play up and conform to the system much more so than you or I do. They may be much more vunerable for one reason or another.

Oh definitely. I realize that I have the privilege of not having to shave my legs or wear makeup because my bills are getting paid whether I do or not. Many women do not have that privilege, and I hold nothing against them. Part of the reason I am so militant about NOT playing into the stereotypes is because I want those women to have more of a choice. And while I do have privilege, I try to use it for good. I try very hard to normalize the idea that hairy women who don't wear makeup aren't worthless or unattractive. I believe that I can change people's minds, and the more people's minds I change, the more other women should have the option to forego at least some aspects of femininity and won't be penalized for it.

I also hope that just by being visible in public the way I am, I can inspire women themselves to set down the razor and the makeup brush and normalize the idea with the people in their lives.

I am losing weight, though, so I guess I'm not championing the cause of overweight women anymore. I struggle a little with my decision to change my body, but I really don't think I am doing it to appease other people. I just want to be healthier and I want to be able to do more things. And it has helped my self esteem some to prove to myself I can do something I never thought I could.

[cori93437]

I love to say the word "misogyny". It sounds so nice coming out of your mouth, even though the definition is rather unpleasant.

I don't have anything substantial to add to this thread.

I love the word cunt. Most people don't... they find it offensive. I find it strong.

I also have nothing substantial to add.

There are a lot of people in this world I dislike based on personality.
I'm not so sure gender has anything to do with it.

[Gravyboat]

I love the word cunt. Most people don't... they find it offensive. I find it strong.

Personally I don't think it's any worse than calling someone a dick. They are analogous. I don't know what the big deal is. People sling "bitch" around like it's nothing and I find that way, way worse.

[paleo-bunny]

I definitely don't dislike all women, but I do tend to avoid the ones who are decidedly feminine and enjoy "glamming up" and all that. Partly because I really don't think we'd have much in common, and partly because I just don't agree with it.



Oh definitely. I realize that I have the privilege of not having to shave my legs or wear makeup because my bills are getting paid whether I do or not. Many women do not have that privilege, and I hold nothing against them. Part of the reason I am so militant about NOT playing into the stereotypes is because I want those women to have more of a choice. And while I do have privilege, I try to use it for good. I try very hard to normalize the idea that hairy women who don't wear makeup aren't worthless or unattractive. I believe that I can change people's minds, and the more people's minds I change, the more other women should have the option to forego at least some aspects of femininity and won't be penalized for it.

I also hope that just by being visible in public the way I am, I can inspire women themselves to set down the razor and the makeup brush and normalize the idea with the people in their lives.

I am losing weight, though, so I guess I'm not championing the cause of overweight women anymore. I struggle a little with my decision to change my body, but I really don't think I am doing it to appease other people. I just want to be healthier and I want to be able to do more things. And it has helped my self esteem some to prove to myself I can do something I never thought I could.

Thanks for clarifying

Cool - good for you. You've convinced me that you're choosing to change your body for exactly the right reasons. Don't let any doubts creep in.

[Goldie]

In general, I don't like mediocrity, so I don't like a lot of people of both genders.

This.

My best friend is my husband. My second best friend is my dad. Other than them, I have 4 other people (2 guys, 2 gals) I consider good friends.

I'm not into "game" playing and drama. I like motorcycles, cars, guns, outdoor sports, photography, and mechanical/techy stuff. My friends share the same interests, and I don't give a rat's ass what their sex is. Common interests and friendship-compatibility aren't gender-specific.

There are too few genuinely nice people who share my interests and are friendship-compatible for me to disqualify any of them based on what sex they are.

[RitaRose]

I don't get along well with anyone that feels like they have to play to whatever stereotype. So it's not restricted to any one group, including women.

I put on makeup in the morning, then go battle dogs and junkies. I wear makeup because it makes me happy. If it stops making me happy, I'll stop wearing it. I don't do it because it's expected of me.

I don't "go shopping" or get a mani/pedi because it's a waste of time for me that I could be using to do something more interesting, like correcting the endless swarms of people on the internet that are wrong because they disagree with me.

In other words, I do whatever makes me happy, not what is expected of me because I'm a woman. I don't get along well with others that feel obligated to fulfill a certain role because others say they should. That means the vast majority of my friends have minds of their own and live their own lives.

I have more male friends, but that's mostly because I work with men and have sons, so I don't even come into contact with a lot of women. My 2 best friends are women though. Just how it worked out.