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Thread: Are EFA's really essential? page 5

  1. #41
    Betorq's Avatar
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    Well hell, even mildly poisonous foods, some of them, are eaten by people in different points of the planet. Purslane, across the line, seems edible. Just a taste preference I assume, or what grows where...

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Purslane may refer to:


    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
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  2. #42
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    EFAs are essential and important. A dietary deficiency of O3 causes women's brains to shrink during pregnancy as their brain is cannabilized to provide O3 for the baby.

    Omega 3 is very important for keeping inflammation in check, and for supporting eye and brain function.

    I don't consider it relevant to compare omega 3 to vitamin C as an essential micronutrient, as vitamin C's not the only antioxidant. Vitamin C can even behave as a reducing agent under some cellular conditions. Its considered importance as an antioxidant is purely historical, as it was discovered so early on. Other antioxidants such as quercetin and vitamin E may eventually be proved to be far more important.
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betorq View Post
    Our sensei, hehe. It took me a sec or 2 to register that. I was like, "So, your martial arts master posts on here too, cool..."
    I think of Mark as a sensei for a 'paleo health dojo'. He's just got that kind of cool vibe about him.
    But that doesn't mean we should do everything he says.

    sweep the leg.jpg

    Does this 80's movie reference rings any bells?
    (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

    (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by paleo-bunny View Post
    EFAs are essential and important. A dietary deficiency of O3 causes women's brains to shrink during pregnancy as their brain is cannabilized to provide O3 for the baby.
    Do you have a link to the clinical data for this? If valid, this would definitely persuade me that the good Dr (Ray Peat) may be wrong. Nature wouldn't transfer O3 from mommy to baby if it was a toxin, while cannabilizing mommy's brain in the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by paleo-bunny View Post
    Omega 3 is very important for keeping inflammation in check, and for supporting eye and brain function.
    Yeah I've read these kinds of studies but they always leave me with an uncertain feeling about their validity.
    Or maybe the good Dr (who has religiously avoided O3's for 40 years) just has me spooked.

    Quote Originally Posted by paleo-bunny View Post
    I don't consider it relevant to compare omega 3 to vitamin C as an essential micronutrient, as vitamin C's not the only antioxidant. Vitamin C can even behave as a reducing agent under some cellular conditions. Its considered importance as an antioxidant is purely historical, as it was discovered so early on. Other antioxidants such as quercetin and vitamin E may eventually be proved to be far more important.
    Good topic but I want to try to keep this thread focused on EFAs.
    (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

    (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

  5. #45
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    Thread Summary: #3

    Background:
    * Omega 3 and 6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) are referred to as 'essential fatty acids' (EFAs) since humans can't synthesize them from other substances. Many nutritional experts claim EFA's should be part of a supplement program, but a few (e.g. Ray Peat) claim eliminating them altogether would be healthier. Arguments from both are usually based on cellular biology/physiology.

    Definitions:
    essential=nutrients which can't be synthesized by the body
    nutrient=any substance that can be metabolized by the body to give energy and build tissue

    'essential nutrient' = any substance which can't be synthesized but that can be metabolized to give energy and build tissue

    Evolutionary (Paleo) Perspective From Posters on this Thread:
    * EFA's are no different than the numerous other 'necessary' nutrients (e.g. water) that the body can't synthesize. The fact that it can't synthesize EFAs should be taken to indicate they were readily available from the evolutionary (paleolithic) diet.

    * Evolution is 'biologically efficient' by delegating essential nutrient synthesis (EFAs) to species lower in the food chain where ever possible as this enables other features to develop.

    Sensei's Perspective From His Blogs:
    * "I agree that avoiding PUFAs in general is a good rule of thumb, but I straddle the line with a little extra time and care in order to take advantage of what I deem valuable nutrient (PUFA) sources."

    * "I buy them raw and as fresh as possible from sources I research. Im a stickler for proper storage. Opaque containers. Refrigeration."

    * "Finally, I make sure my diet is chock-full of antioxidants (including vitamin E) and minerals to counter any oxidative stress from PUFAs or any other source."


    Practical Open Questions:
    * How much EFAs are really needed?
    A1: "Since were all about the primal here, were taken in by the ratio most experts agree characterized
    hunter gatherer diets. And that would be an elegant 1:1 ratio. (O6:O3)" (sensei)
    A2: "1-3 grams of omega-3 a day" (sensei)
    A3: "Supplementing your diet with a high-quality omega-3 fatty acid supplement is, in our estimation,
    one of the best things you can do for your body...It can be difficult to achieve the 1:1 ratio
    without use of a daily supplement." (sensei)

    * What beneficial role do they support in health?
    A1: Ethereal reported they help with skin issues.

    * Is there a better definition of 'essential nutrient'?
    (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

    (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

  6. #46
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    At the risk of ruffling a few feathers, here's Matt Stone's take on PUFA's:



    ...not all that different from sensei's. Surprisingly, he disagrees with Peat.
    He also covers some interesting physiological aspects of O3.
    (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

    (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

  7. #47
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    Here are some Josh Rubin youtube vids on EFA's. I guess I'm getting tired of reading about EFAs...maybe some of you can relate!

    In this first one, about 2 years old, he mainly talks about how the issue is really 'individual' and that lipid blood labs are important to determine whether or not to supplement. He also covers how some people are literally 'flushing their money down the drain' by supplementing:



    In the next video, about 1 year old, he seems to have downed a whole gallon of Peat brand kool-aid. There's no doubt where he stands on the issue here, but he does bring in some more on the physiology of EFAs and why that suggests they aren't healthy:



    In this last vid he gives some specifics on nuts and EFA's, and some more interesting physiology on why nuts contain PUFAs:



    And for those who don't want to have to watch anything, here's an audio interview he did with Ray Peat, be sure to skip the first 3 minutes (technical difficulties), kind of 'direct hit' at around 16:20:

    The Science Behind The Dangers of Polyunsaturated Fats with Ray Peat, PhD. 11/18 by Josh Jeanne Rubin | Blog Talk Radio

    So, there's at least one worker in the alternative health field that thoroughly embrace's the Peat perspective on EFAs.
    (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

    (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

  8. #48
    paleo-bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoLogicCheck View Post
    Do you have a link to the clinical data for this? If valid, this would definitely persuade me that the good Dr (Ray Peat) may be wrong. Nature wouldn't transfer O3 from mommy to baby if it was a toxin, while cannabilizing mommy's brain in the process.


    Yeah I've read these kinds of studies but they always leave me with an uncertain feeling about their validity.
    Or maybe the good Dr (who has religiously avoided O3's for 40 years) just has me spooked.


    Good topic but I want to try to keep this thread focused on EFAs.
    Why do you believe O3 is a toxin? It's O6 that is a known toxin and inflammatory agent.

    Do your own research.
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by paleo-bunny View Post
    Why do you believe O3 is a toxin?
    Ray Peat has a persuasive argument that it is. I'm not convinced...yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by paleo-bunny View Post
    It's O6 that is a known toxin and inflammatory agent.
    Yes, all the experts agree on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by paleo-bunny View Post
    Do your own research.
    That's really what this thread is about. Whatever I find on the topic I post here.
    I invite others to do the same and/or to show how what I find is flawed.
    Thank you for your contribution, I will try to track a link down for it in a few weeks.

    Right now I'm looking at the physiological aspect of EFAs (which would suggest that O6 is a toxin and that therefore so must O3). I'm going to look into the cellular biology of EFAs next, then clinical studies, of which yours will be one of the first.

    It's a slow process, but hopefully worth it.
    (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

    (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

  10. #50
    Betorq's Avatar
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    2 articles from Swanson Health Blog; Chia/ALA/EPA study & O3 aging study

    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    Quote Originally Posted by paleo-bunny View Post
    EFAs are essential and important. A dietary deficiency of O3 causes women's brains to shrink during pregnancy as their brain is cannabilized to provide O3 for the baby.
    Omega 3 is very important for keeping inflammation in check, and for supporting eye and brain function.
    I don't consider it relevant to compare omega 3 to vitamin C as an essential micronutrient, as vitamin C's not the only antioxidant. Vitamin C can even behave as a reducing agent under some cellular conditions. Its considered importance as an antioxidant is purely historical, as it was discovered so early on. Other antioxidants such as quercetin and vitamin E may eventually be proved to be far more important.
    1) Pro-Chia/ALA/EPA article & study: Chia Seeds Raise Blood ALA and EPA Levels for Postmenopausal Women - Swanson Health Products

    2) Also from Swanson Health Blog: Can Omega-3s Slow the Aging Process? [VIDEO]
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown


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