Are EFA's really essential? page 5

[Betorq]

Well hell, even mildly poisonous foods, some of them, are eaten by people in different points of the planet. Purslane, across the line, seems edible. Just a taste preference I assume, or what grows where...

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Purslane may refer to:

• Portulacaceae, a family of succulent flowering plants, and especially:
  
  • Portulaca oleracea, a species of Portulaca eaten as a vegetable and considered a weed, known as summer purslane
  
  
• Claytonia perfoliata, Miner's lettuce or winter purslane
• Claytonia sibirica, pink purslane
• Halimione portulacoides, sea purslane
• Portulaca grandiflora, moss rose, or moss-rose purslane

[paleo-bunny]

EFAs are essential and important. A dietary deficiency of O3 causes women's brains to shrink during pregnancy as their brain is cannabilized to provide O3 for the baby.

Omega 3 is very important for keeping inflammation in check, and for supporting eye and brain function.

I don't consider it relevant to compare omega 3 to vitamin C as an essential micronutrient, as vitamin C's not the only antioxidant. Vitamin C can even behave as a reducing agent under some cellular conditions. Its considered importance as an antioxidant is purely historical, as it was discovered so early on. Other antioxidants such as quercetin and vitamin E may eventually be proved to be far more important.

[PaleoLogicCheck]

Our sensei, hehe. It took me a sec or 2 to register that. I was like, "So, your martial arts master posts on here too, cool..."

I think of Mark as a sensei for a 'paleo health dojo'. He's just got that kind of cool vibe about him.
But that doesn't mean we should do everything he says.

sweep the leg.jpg

Does this 80's movie reference rings any bells?

[PaleoLogicCheck]

EFAs are essential and important. A dietary deficiency of O3 causes women's brains to shrink during pregnancy as their brain is cannabilized to provide O3 for the baby.

Do you have a link to the clinical data for this? If valid, this would definitely persuade me that the good Dr (Ray Peat) may be wrong. Nature wouldn't transfer O3 from mommy to baby if it was a toxin, while cannabilizing mommy's brain in the process.

Omega 3 is very important for keeping inflammation in check, and for supporting eye and brain function.

Yeah I've read these kinds of studies but they always leave me with an uncertain feeling about their validity.
Or maybe the good Dr (who has religiously avoided O3's for 40 years) just has me spooked.

I don't consider it relevant to compare omega 3 to vitamin C as an essential micronutrient, as vitamin C's not the only antioxidant. Vitamin C can even behave as a reducing agent under some cellular conditions. Its considered importance as an antioxidant is purely historical, as it was discovered so early on. Other antioxidants such as quercetin and vitamin E may eventually be proved to be far more important.

Good topic but I want to try to keep this thread focused on EFAs.

[PaleoLogicCheck]

Thread Summary: #3

Background:
* Omega 3 and 6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) are referred to as 'essential fatty acids' (EFAs) since humans can't synthesize them from other substances. Many nutritional experts claim EFA's should be part of a supplement program, but a few (e.g. Ray Peat) claim eliminating them altogether would be healthier. Arguments from both are usually based on cellular biology/physiology.

Definitions:
essential=nutrients which can't be synthesized by the body
nutrient=any substance that can be metabolized by the body to give energy and build tissue

'essential nutrient' = any substance which can't be synthesized but that can be metabolized to give energy and build tissue

Evolutionary (Paleo) Perspective From Posters on this Thread:
* EFA's are no different than the numerous other 'necessary' nutrients (e.g. water) that the body can't synthesize. The fact that it can't synthesize EFAs should be taken to indicate they were readily available from the evolutionary (paleolithic) diet.

* Evolution is 'biologically efficient' by delegating essential nutrient synthesis (EFAs) to species lower in the food chain where ever possible as this enables other features to develop.

Sensei's Perspective From His Blogs:
* "I agree that avoiding PUFAs in general is a good rule of thumb, but I straddle the line – with a little extra time and care – in order to take advantage of what I deem valuable nutrient (PUFA) sources."

* "I buy them raw and as fresh as possible from sources I research. I’m a stickler for proper storage. Opaque containers. Refrigeration."

* "Finally, I make sure my diet is chock-full of antioxidants (including vitamin E) and minerals to counter any oxidative stress from PUFAs or any other source."


Practical Open Questions:
* How much EFAs are really needed?
A1: "Since we’re all about the primal here, we’re taken in by the ratio most experts agree characterized
hunter gatherer diets. And that would be an elegant 1:1 ratio. (O6:O3)" (sensei)
A2: "1-3 grams of omega-3 a day" (sensei)
A3: "Supplementing your diet with a high-quality omega-3 fatty acid supplement is, in our estimation,
one of the best things you can do for your body...It can be difficult to achieve the 1:1 ratio
without use of a daily supplement." (sensei)

* What beneficial role do they support in health?
A1: Ethereal reported they help with skin issues.

* Is there a better definition of 'essential nutrient'?

[PaleoLogicCheck]

At the risk of ruffling a few feathers, here's Matt Stone's take on PUFA's:



...not all that different from sensei's. Surprisingly, he disagrees with Peat.
He also covers some interesting physiological aspects of O3.

[PaleoLogicCheck]

Here are some Josh Rubin youtube vids on EFA's. I guess I'm getting tired of reading about EFAs...maybe some of you can relate!

In this first one, about 2 years old, he mainly talks about how the issue is really 'individual' and that lipid blood labs are important to determine whether or not to supplement. He also covers how some people are literally 'flushing their money down the drain' by supplementing:



In the next video, about 1 year old, he seems to have downed a whole gallon of Peat brand kool-aid. There's no doubt where he stands on the issue here, but he does bring in some more on the physiology of EFAs and why that suggests they aren't healthy:



In this last vid he gives some specifics on nuts and EFA's, and some more interesting physiology on why nuts contain PUFAs:



And for those who don't want to have to watch anything, here's an audio interview he did with Ray Peat, be sure to skip the first 3 minutes (technical difficulties), kind of 'direct hit' at around 16:20:

The Science Behind The Dangers of Polyunsaturated Fats with Ray Peat, PhD. 11/18 by Josh Jeanne Rubin | Blog Talk Radio

So, there's at least one worker in the alternative health field that thoroughly embrace's the Peat perspective on EFAs.

[paleo-bunny]

Do you have a link to the clinical data for this? If valid, this would definitely persuade me that the good Dr (Ray Peat) may be wrong. Nature wouldn't transfer O3 from mommy to baby if it was a toxin, while cannabilizing mommy's brain in the process.


Yeah I've read these kinds of studies but they always leave me with an uncertain feeling about their validity.
Or maybe the good Dr (who has religiously avoided O3's for 40 years) just has me spooked.


Good topic but I want to try to keep this thread focused on EFAs.

Why do you believe O3 is a toxin? It's O6 that is a known toxin and inflammatory agent.

Do your own research.

[PaleoLogicCheck]

Why do you believe O3 is a toxin?

Ray Peat has a persuasive argument that it is. I'm not convinced...yet.

It's O6 that is a known toxin and inflammatory agent.

Yes, all the experts agree on that.

Do your own research.

That's really what this thread is about. Whatever I find on the topic I post here.
I invite others to do the same and/or to show how what I find is flawed.
Thank you for your contribution, I will try to track a link down for it in a few weeks.

Right now I'm looking at the physiological aspect of EFAs (which would suggest that O6 is a toxin and that therefore so must O3). I'm going to look into the cellular biology of EFAs next, then clinical studies, of which yours will be one of the first.

It's a slow process, but hopefully worth it.

[Betorq]

EFAs are essential and important. A dietary deficiency of O3 causes women's brains to shrink during pregnancy as their brain is cannabilized to provide O3 for the baby.
Omega 3 is very important for keeping inflammation in check, and for supporting eye and brain function.
I don't consider it relevant to compare omega 3 to vitamin C as an essential micronutrient, as vitamin C's not the only antioxidant. Vitamin C can even behave as a reducing agent under some cellular conditions. Its considered importance as an antioxidant is purely historical, as it was discovered so early on. Other antioxidants such as quercetin and vitamin E may eventually be proved to be far more important.

1) Pro-Chia/ALA/EPA article & study: Chia Seeds Raise Blood ALA and EPA Levels for Postmenopausal Women - Swanson Health Products

2) Also from Swanson Health Blog: Can Omega-3s Slow the Aging Process? [VIDEO]