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Thread: Are EFA's really essential? page 4

  1. #31
    Betorq's Avatar
    Betorq is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by quelsen View Post
    I worked with a guy who was like this. at least in public and talked a good game.

    Last i heard after he got married she made him eat and he gained 50 pounds.
    Nature abhors a vaccum, & he became one.... I hope she likes her hubbie w/ his bigger tubbie...
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
    I always wondered about the requirement for efa's. I don't doubt omega3's are beneficial but I'm sure the actually requirement is extremely low. I never ate anything containing a significant source of omega 3's growing up. Fish/seafood/flax/chai/nuts/eggs/fatty meats/ etc. You also see some diet plans that exclude all overt fats and people seem to be doing fine. The only fats they seem to get are from fruits and salad which contain microscopic amounts.
    You ever heard of an all rabbit diet? Native peoples, who circumstantially were stuck eating nothing but rabbit for long stretches, have all sorts of humorous & not-so humorous phrases for this fat deficient diet of suffering daily rabbit meat. People die. And there are many many cases of people getting sick , being unhappy & yes even dying on low or no fat diets over sustained periods of time.
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown


  3. #33
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    Thread Summary: #2

    Background:
    * Omega 3 and 6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) are referred to as 'essential fatty acids' (EFAs) since humans can't synthesize them from other substances. Many nutritional experts claim EFA's should be part of a supplement program, but a few (e.g. Ray Peat) claim eliminating them altogether would be healthier. Arguments from both are usually based on cellular biology/physiology.

    Definitions:
    essential=nutrients which can't be synthesized by the body
    nutrient=any substance that can be metabolized by the body to give energy and build tissue

    'essential nutrient' = any substance which can't be synthesized but that can be metabolized to give energy and build tissue

    Evolutionary (Paleo) Perspective From Posters on this Thread:
    * EFA's are no different than the numerous other 'necessary' nutrients (e.g. water) that the body can't synthesize. The fact that it can't synthesize EFAs should be taken to indicate they were readily available from the evolutionary (paleolithic) diet.

    * Evolution is 'biologically efficient' by delegating essential nutrient synthesis (EFAs) to species lower in the food chain where ever possible as this enables other features to develop.

    * It's the ratio of O3:O6 in the diet that matters, they should be kept close to equal. Supplement (or get from food) as much O3 as needed to balance O6.

    Practical Open Questions:
    * Is there a better definition of 'essential nutrient'?
    * How much EFAs are really needed?
    * What beneficial role do they support in health?
    A1: Ethereal reported they help with skin issues.
    (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

    (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

  4. #34
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    Great discussion! Here's my 2 cents: In the body, essential fatty acids serve multiple functions. In each of these, the balance between dietary O-3 and O-6 strongly affects function.

    O3/O6 are modified to make eicosanoids (affecting inflammation and many other cellular functions), endocannabinoids (affecting mood, behavior and inflammation), lipoxins from O-6 EFAs and resolvins from O-3 (in the presence of aspirin, downregulating inflammation.), isofurans, neurofurans, isoprostanes, hepoxilins, epoxyeicosatrienoic acids (EETs) and Neuroprotectin D.

    They also form lipid rafts (affecting cellular signaling) and they act on DNA (activating or inhibiting transcription factors such as NF-κB, which is linked to pro-inflammatory cytokine production)

    Now, where do the "EFA's" come from? They are found in fish and shellfish, flaxseed (linseed), hemp oil, soya oil, canola (rapeseed) oil, chia seeds, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, leafy vegetables, and walnuts.

    I think it is appropriate to call O3/O6 EFA only in the context that they are derived from fish, shellfish, seeds, nuts, and vegetables in their original packaging. The EFA label gave manufacturers of food cart blanche to mislead the public into thinking that soybean oil, flax seeds, and krill oil are mandatory for good health.

    There is no human, past or present, who didn't eat something, sometime in their life that contained O3 or O6--you wouldn't have cell walls if you never took these substances in. Therefore, yes, O3 and O6 are properly classified as EFA's.

  5. #35
    otzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoLogicCheck View Post
    [U]
    * Is there a better definition of 'essential nutrient'?
    * How much EFAs are really needed?
    * What beneficial role do they support in health?
    A1: Ethereal reported they help with skin issues.
    1. The term EFA is misleading. It should only be used in biology texts--not as a dietary term.

    2. O3 and O6 consumption should not be counted, nor even taken into consideration. One should eat plenty of seafood and shellfish along with their paleo diet and it will take care of itself. Supplements are not needed and not desired. O3 and O6 only work in their pre-packaged (food) form.

    3. Under-eating of foods containing O3/O6 cause dermatitis and depression. Strange bedfellows until you think "cell wall degradation"

  6. #36
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    Let's look at it this way: Take a young girl. Feed her only foods that contain no EFA's. Raise her on this diet until puberty, then have her bear a child. Feed this child no EFA's. Any predictions?

    Same setup, but feed the girl only grain-fed beef and other borderline EFA foods and lots of O6 veg oils, but no seafood. Do the same to her child. Different outcome?

    Same people, feed mother and child a diet rich in seafood and plants that contain EFAs. How's their health now?
    Last edited by otzi; 07-30-2012 at 06:14 PM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betorq View Post
    You ever heard of an all rabbit diet? Native peoples, who circumstantially were stuck eating nothing but rabbit for long stretches, have all sorts of humorous & not-so humorous phrases for this fat deficient diet of suffering daily rabbit meat. People die. And there are many many cases of people getting sick , being unhappy & yes even dying on low or no fat diets over sustained periods of time.
    Rabbit starvation? I'm pretty sure that was due to too high a protein content and insufficient fat or carb consumption. Steven guyenet mentioned there was a few tribes in New guinine that lived on diets with up to 95% carb. That would only leave 2% or so microscopic fat intake that the potatoes contained.

  8. #38
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    Our sensei has blogged on this topic a lot, here are some relevant examples:

    Polyunsaturated Fats: Are They Healthy?

    Enough Omegas?

    More on Omega

    Encore on Omegas

    O6:O3 Ratio

    Many more can be found from the search function.
    The fact that he still offers a supplement probably says it all though:

    Vital Omegas Description
    Vital Omegas Product Page

    I'll try to add a section to a new thread summary just on his views a little later.
    Also, I'll add a new section to the thread summary with links to study's with clinical evidence.
    (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

    (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoLogicCheck View Post
    Our sensei has blogged on this topic a lot, here are some relevant examples:
    Polyunsaturated Fats: Are They Healthy?
    Enough Omegas?
    More on Omega
    Encore on Omegas
    O6:O3 Ratio
    Many more can be found from the search function.
    The fact that he still offers a supplement probably says it all though:
    Vital Omegas Description
    Vital Omegas Product Page
    I'll try to add a section to a new thread summary just on his views a little later.
    Also, I'll add a new section to the thread summary with links to study's with clinical evidence.
    Our sensei, hehe. It took me a sec or 2 to register that. I was like, "So, your martial arts master posts on here too, cool..."
    Mark sells formulas w/ fish oils, whey & vit d. I think for people that don't get optimal levels from their diets, or might have specific health challenges, some supplementation is/can be good. Some people poo poo whey, on MDA & other sites. But I do use it some, not every day but some without worry. Just like vit D & cod liver oil, not every day...
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown


  10. #40
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    Question on purslane: are all portulacas edible? I went scouring round the castle and environs for some wild, and am in a rare spot where none was to be found, but see portulacas all the time at garden centers. Any precautions, or just pick one, plant, and eat?

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