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Thread: Are EFA's really essential? page 3

  1. #21
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    @ Artbuc,

    We're all in the same boat.


    @ Neckhammer,

    I've been thinking some more about your comment on the amount of EFAs from a 'evolutionary' perspective, trying to see if it can inform an even better guideline. But it really hasn't, it seems cellular biology may provide more insight. There are 2 camps in that school. The Ray Peat camp says they're poison basically and that as a result we should do our best to eliminate them completely. The CW camp says they're beneficial and that we should supplement of course.

    Either could be right, I don't think paleoprimatology can really decide. Here's why:

    We know natural 'toxins' were present in the paleo environment. Maybe EFAs are toxins and Grok simply adapted to tolerating a low % of daily intake of them. On the other hand, they could be beneficial, and if so, Grok had to adapt to a limited supply of them. So, following the 'practical' approach of keeping them low, say 4% or less of daily calories, puts us in the same boat as Grok. But, becoming more extreme (body hack) and assuming we guess the correct direction (eliminate or supplement) would put us in a better position health-wise than Grok ever was.

    It would seem enough people have tried the supplement approach but I don't see any overwhelming evidence of indisputable benefit.

    Thoughts?
    (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

    (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by quelsen View Post
    Clarification:



    without water our cells cannot create energy or describe any shape.
    blood would fail to flow
    digestion would cease
    Hi Quelsen,

    I worked with a group of Russian electrochemical researchers for about 5 years. I had at least half a dozen shouting matches with them in the first year alone. They usually won, it was their company after all, no fun at all.

    Then I had an epiphany, it dawned on me that most of our arguments came down to using different definitions for the same terminology. We each assumed we were talking about the same thing but turns out we weren't. That experience taught me that the first thing to do in technical debate is agree on the definitions of the terminology framing the debate, don't assume all parties agree on definitions.


    With that said, do you really think I'm arguing that water isn't 'essential' to life?
    Really?
    (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

    (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoLogicCheck View Post
    Hi Quelsen,
    ....With that said, do you really think I'm arguing that water isn't 'essential' to life?
    Really?
    I knew this raw foodist/health food store owner in Maui, who hadn't had a drink of water in about 3 years. He did drink coconuts & eat raw juicy fruit & sprouts everyday though, getting his water that way. I'm not endorsing this, but it is kinda funny that he technically never drinks any water from a spigot, water filter or bottle.
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown


  4. #24
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    The only things "essential to life" are in order 1) surviving child-birth, 2) air 3)water (in some form) 4) calories from fat/protein. Vitamins & EFAs, for most people, make the list too...

    There are breatharians(not all of them are fakes) who subsist on air & a few sips of water. Calories are converted from sunshine & prana in the air around them.... Woo woo or real?

    For those that are real yogis, adepts, it's real... For those on youtube, seeking fame or money, well... there you have it...

    Am I losing credibility by espousing such anti-science? Oh well....
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown


  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoLogicCheck View Post
    Has evolution failed? If not, how is it that after 10,000,000 years (or so) of human evolution there are essential nutrients, vital for survival and/or reproduction, that the body can't make for itself. Do we just need a 'little more time'?
    Evolution is not a force that directs us toward some goal of eventual perfection. It is simply the changes that result over time due to pressures on survival.

    Would it be nice if we could just synthesize every nutrient and micronutrient that was essential for our survival? Sure, that'd be great. But apparently, whatever mutations and genetic changes that might be required for this to happen, have not happened. Oh well, with mutations you win some you lose some.

    On the plus side, we did evolve the ability to procure these essential nutrients by various means from our environments... and this seems to have worked pretty well for us so far.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betorq View Post
    There are breatharians(not all of them are fakes) who subsist on air & a few sips of water. Calories are converted from sunshine & prana in the air around them.... Woo woo or real?

    For those that are real yogis, adepts, it's real... For those on youtube, seeking fame or money, well... there you have it...

    Am I losing credibility by espousing such anti-science? Oh well....
    Wait a sec, do you actually believe this? I'm not being confrontational, I'm just curious. I read a lot about eastern philosophy and traditions, and so I come across these kind of claims a lot. As cool as the idea of breatharians (and other such things) are, I've never had any good reason to believe that such people exist. It's like psychic phenomena -- fun to think about and imagine, but never any good reason to believe in.

    I'm just asking because the way you sound in the above quote makes me think you do believe in people who live off sips of water, their breath, and energy from the prana that surrounds them. If you do, where does that belief come from?

    Edit: Betorq, thank you for the PM. Excellent stuff!
    Last edited by ciep; 07-28-2012 at 01:24 PM. Reason: Credit to Betorq for replying in PM, so as not to hijack.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betorq View Post
    The only things "essential to life" are in order 1) surviving child-birth, 2) air 3)water (in some form) 4) calories from fat/protein. Vitamins & EFAs, for most people, make the list too...

    There are breatharians(not all of them are fakes) who subsist on air & a few sips of water. Calories are converted from sunshine & prana in the air around them.... Woo woo or real?

    For those that are real yogis, adepts, it's real... For those on youtube, seeking fame or money, well... there you have it...

    Am I losing credibility by espousing such anti-science? Oh well....
    Hi Betorq,

    I'm in GA too. Breatharians are an interesting topic...why don't you start a seperate thread and share what you have?
    As far as I know, it's an impossibility. But then I don't even know if EFA's are essential or not.
    (1) I am 100% on-board with the primal exercise blue print. It reduces the problem of exercise down to its simplest form and provides a solution that can be used for a lifetime.

    (2) I'm not on-board with the primal diet blue print. In fact, I'm not on-board with any diet plan but a man can hope to find the right answer before it's too late.

  8. #28
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    I always wondered about the requirement for efa's. I don't doubt omega3's are beneficial but I'm sure the actually requirement is extremely low. I never ate anything containing a significant source of omega 3's growing up. Fish/seafood/flax/chai/nuts/eggs/fatty meats/ etc. You also see some diet plans that exclude all overt fats and people seem to be doing fine. The only fats they seem to get are from fruits and salad which contain microscopic amounts.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betorq View Post
    The only things "essential to life" are in order 1) surviving child-birth, 2) air 3)water (in some form) 4) calories from fat/protein. Vitamins & EFAs, for most people, make the list too...

    There are breatharians(not all of them are fakes) who subsist on air & a few sips of water. Calories are converted from sunshine & prana in the air around them.... Woo woo or real?

    For those that are real yogis, adepts, it's real... For those on youtube, seeking fame or money, well... there you have it...

    Am I losing credibility by espousing such anti-science? Oh well....
    I worked with a guy who was like this. at least in public and talked a good game.

    Last i heard after he got married she made him eat and he gained 50 pounds.
    Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

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    Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoLogicCheck View Post
    Hi Quelsen,

    I worked with a group of Russian electrochemical researchers for about 5 years. I had at least half a dozen shouting matches with them in the first year alone. They usually won, it was their company after all, no fun at all.

    Then I had an epiphany, it dawned on me that most of our arguments came down to using different definitions for the same terminology. We each assumed we were talking about the same thing but turns out we weren't. That experience taught me that the first thing to do in technical debate is agree on the definitions of the terminology framing the debate, don't assume all parties agree on definitions.


    With that said, do you really think I'm arguing that water isn't 'essential' to life?
    Really?
    Yes i actually thought that. i read and reread your assertion and it just seemed a bit too far fetched to actually let it go. <shrug> sorry
    Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

    Predator not Prey
    Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

    CW 315 | SW 506
    Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


    Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

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