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Thread: The True Definition of Calories i.e. "Why what you believe is extremist BS" page 68

  1. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    It's not that CICO isn't true, it's that you are able to control the calories in part, but not the calories out part....
    It's worse than that.

    Living organisms are regulated by feedback paths. Paths, plural. Many feedback systems. When you adjust a parameter (e.g. CI) a great many other parameters adjust in the background according to the organism's inborn feedback controls. These controls evolved, which means their one criteria is successful reproduction in whatever conditions existed when they evolved. They don't have to be good or make sense, they just had to increase the odds of successful reproduction at some point.

    That makes for an insanely complicated set of relationships. People who have actually worked with feedback systems (engineers, some scientists, a few others) understand just how complicated the behavior of a single feedback system can be. Layered feedback is exponentially more complex. Most people are just flat-out ignorant and will catastrophically underestimate the complexity...as demonstrated by some posters on this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Him View Post
    It's worse than that.

    Living organisms are regulated by feedback paths. Paths, plural. Many feedback systems. When you adjust a parameter (e.g. CI) a great many other parameters adjust in the background according to the organism's inborn feedback controls. These controls evolved, which means their one criteria is successful reproduction in whatever conditions existed when they evolved. They don't have to be good or make sense, they just had to increase the odds of successful reproduction at some point.

    That makes for an insanely complicated set of relationships. People who have actually worked with feedback systems (engineers, some scientists, a few others) understand just how complicated the behavior of a single feedback system can be. Layered feedback is exponentially more complex. Most people are just flat-out ignorant and will catastrophically underestimate the complexity...as demonstrated by some posters on this thread.
    Great post. I believe this is why you can throw 99.9% of the nutritional/health studies in the round file.

  3. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_e_turner_ii View Post
    There have been so many other threads with this same argument over my three years in the forums. There's no point to it, because it can't be "proven". Confirmation bias at it's best. I can tell you all day long that you are eating too much, and that's why you haven't lost fat, but you won't believe me because you want to hear that you can eat unlimited amounts of food as long as it's "healthy".
    If this were true how does one explain a skinny person eating us much as they want, but not putting on weight?

  4. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by sting View Post
    If this were true how does one explain a skinny person eating us much as they want, but not putting on weight?
    Because the skinny person idea of "as much as they want" is til satiation, not to satisfy a gluttonous desire for comfort foods.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryKiwi47 View Post
    Because the skinny person idea of "as much as they want" is til satiation, not to satisfy a gluttonous desire for comfort foods.
    But some skinny people consume 5k calories per day way over their BMI and still don't gain weight.

    Consuming 5k calories a day is easy through sweets soft drinks etc

  6. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by sting View Post
    But some skinny people consume 5k calories per day way over their BMI and still don't gain weight.

    Consuming 5k calories a day is easy through sweets soft drinks etc
    I think you mean TDEE.

    And, in most cases, these "skinny people" are simply not eating as much as you think - unless you follow them all day, every day for a week/month and log their intuitive caloric intake. It is rare to find people with such sky-rocketing high metabolisms.

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    My son has always been a good example of the skinny kid that appears to eat anything he wants. He has always been athletic, playing soccer and other sports. If you saw him at dinner time at home or after a game, he would be eating an entire Jumbo Jack Combo, plus dessert. That's a huge bacon cheeseburger, giant curly fries, large soda and ice cream or whatever he decided. Besides that, he probably only had a bowl of cereal that day. Total calories was still pretty low based on his activity level, thus he remains skinny. He never really at much until dinner time, so it was basically a form of intermittent fasting.

    On the other hand, my best friend while growing up also ate "whatever he wanted". He started the day with chocolate milk, donuts and bacon and eggs. Ate fast food for lunch and dinner, snacked and drank sodas in between and was morbidly obese by his teenage years. He also played football, but all those calories outweighed his activity.

  8. #678
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    Quote Originally Posted by sting View Post
    But some skinny people consume 5k calories per day way over their BMI and still don't gain weight.

    Consuming 5k calories a day is easy through sweets soft drinks etc
    This is not easy at all. 2k calories in sodas alone is the equivalent of 10 16oz sodas. So on top of that, a person would have to eat another 3k in food and several more sodas. Sure, some people may do that, but it's not a "skinny" person unless we are talking about Michael Phelps that works out 6 hours per day.

  9. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Him View Post
    It's worse than that.

    Living organisms are regulated by feedback paths. Paths, plural. Many feedback systems. When you adjust a parameter (e.g. CI) a great many other parameters adjust in the background according to the organism's inborn feedback controls. These controls evolved, which means their one criteria is successful reproduction in whatever conditions existed when they evolved. They don't have to be good or make sense, they just had to increase the odds of successful reproduction at some point.

    That makes for an insanely complicated set of relationships. People who have actually worked with feedback systems (engineers, some scientists, a few others) understand just how complicated the behavior of a single feedback system can be. Layered feedback is exponentially more complex. Most people are just flat-out ignorant and will catastrophically underestimate the complexity...as demonstrated by some posters on this thread.
    This is where I feel we need to be aware of the fact that foods from nature have a corresponding complexity to our bodies. Regardless of how advanced we think we are, the complexities of nature are largely still beyond our understanding.

  10. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_e_turner_ii View Post
    This is not easy at all. 2k calories in sodas alone is the equivalent of 10 16oz sodas. So on top of that, a person would have to eat another 3k in food and several more sodas. Sure, some people may do that, but it's not a "skinny" person unless we are talking about Michael Phelps that works out 6 hours per day.

    1 Large pizza is anywhere between 2500-3000 calories on its own, some of my friends that eat healthy and usually average between 4000 - 4500 calories per day, one for instance is a personal trainer he mentioned he eats 4500 daily.

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