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Thread: The True Definition of Calories i.e. "Why what you believe is extremist BS" page 53

  1. #521
    Iron Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    I don't think your parents put you through an English comprehension class when you were a kid.

    I can play this game, too. If you don't have anything sensible to say, you may as well not say anything at all. Didn't your parents teach you that lesson?

    Actually you're right. I shouldn't have posted that as it lowers the level and I understand that most people here are trying to learn. Besides, it was just too damn easy. For that I apologize to everyone.
    Last edited by Iron Will; 08-02-2012 at 11:14 AM.

  2. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Will View Post
    Actually you're right. I shouldn't have posted that as it lowers the level and I understand that most people here are trying to learn. Besides, it was just too damn easy. For that I apologize to everyone.
    I agree... but it comes down to Choco (sorry for the Chaco earlier) insisting that his way is the only way.
    As he has done so many times before.
    He nit picked one summative quote I used...
    And dismisses the value of fat in the diet despite the fact that unlike carbs, it is really very necessary for health.
    I don't advocate VLC... though I sometimes eat that way out of necessity for my own issues of not being able to handle volume.
    But to dismiss all the research that indicates that LC helps people lose more weight, and stick to diets longer, just because that isn't how you prefer to do it personally is just ridiculous.
    Not every person is the same.
    Different things work better for different people.

    Just saying NOPE you're wrong "only protein is important" and "fat is equal to sugar" doesn't help anyone in the long run.
    Helping them under stand how EACH of the mechanisms, Protein/Fat/Carbohydrate, may affect their diet and appetite OTOH would be helpful.
    But that's not what Choco ever seems to be interested in.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    I agree... but it comes down to Choco (sorry for the Chaco earlier) insisting that his way is the only way.
    Where did I insist my way is the only way? This entire thread is about personal experimentation - not relying on some TDEE number an equation gives you on a website. You're so hellbent on tearing me down you're not reading the context of anything I'm writing. Sit back, relax and take your emotions out of the equation. This is what was said:

    1.) In order to lose weight, you must burn more calories than you consume.
    2.) CICO is perfect, but the methods of calculating CI and CO are not. You may not fit into the paradigm.
    3.) Create consistent habits and find a level of food restriction that allows you to drop the weight sustainably.
    4.) Focus on eating real, whole, unprocessed foods to support your metabolism as best as possible while providing proper nutrition while on a deficit. Don't focus on snake oil sales tactics like cold thermogenesis or drinking sticks of butter.

    What, exactly, do you disagree with? And how is this "my way" when it's you specifically tailoring a plan for yourself?

    And don't get mad at me because I dismissed your study. I specifically mentioned that the study must hold protein constant. You failed to provide that. I asked you for an apple and you gave me an orange, yet you're blaming me. The study was not controlled, therefore it's not worth reading since it proves nothing.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 08-02-2012 at 12:04 PM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  4. #524
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    Thank you both, Sihana, Cori, for answering my questions and sharing your experiences. Cori, I hope you will feel notable improvement!

    Sihana, I had trained fasted before, but I find that I train the best non-fasted now. I noticed that trained famished really screwed up my performance. But I react very differently than you to fat. The 30 g carb + 15 g protein from UD was the best combos I have found. The 50 cals of whey (i.e. pure protein) a-la LG did not work for me.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

  5. #525
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    I still say drinking 400 cal of grass fed butter in coffee makes a great fast breakfast that keeps my hunger at bay for hours. But that is how i treat it... meal replacement

  6. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Where did I insist my way is the only way? This entire thread is about personal experimentation - not relying on some TDEE number an equation gives you on a website. You're so hellbent on tearing me down you're not reading the context of anything I'm writing. Sit back, relax and take your emotions out of the equation. This is what was said:

    1.) In order to lose weight, you must burn more calories than you consume.
    2.) CICO is perfect, but the methods of calculating CI and CO are not. You may not fit into the paradigm.
    3.) Create consistent habits and find a level of food restriction that allows you to drop the weight sustainably.
    4.) Focus on eating real, whole, unprocessed foods to support your metabolism as best as possible while providing proper nutrition while on a deficit. Don't focus on snake oil sales tactics like cold thermogenesis or drinking sticks of butter.

    What, exactly, do you disagree with? And how is this "my way" when it's you specifically tailoring a plan for yourself?
    IMO that is all great basic info...
    But then when someone states that there are benefits to Low carb... (Did you note that in my post I said, "Regardless of some mysterious 'metabolic advantage', or not, its easy to see that LC diets to tend to promote weight loss over and above LCal/LF diets over time."), you get a bit nuts with the Fat=Sugar bit, and the ONLY important factor ever is protein.

    That's just not true, and it makes you sound a bit off the rails.
    For many people consuming more fat keeps them on the diet longer and helps them lose more weight, as I stated in , my post where you only chose to respond to the one small summative quote.
    And for many people eating low fat and high carb makes them more hungry... defeating the diet.
    There are benefits to fat. Eating fat is necessary: fat soluble vitamins.
    I have also stated that calories are important several times... you skipped that too.
    Calories being equal LC/MC wins because more (not ALL) people can stick to it instead of just quitting from hunger.

    As far as adding fats... really what is the problem? If the person doesn't wish to eat large volumes of food for a specific reason, or cannot, it's vastly better than sugar. Eating a similar caloric amount of refined sugar can cause headaches, hypoglycemic cashes, and increased binge behavior in many people. Fat =/= sugar no matter how much you like to say it does, because the body does not process and react to it the same way.

    As I said before... instead of taking these hard lined approaches and making over simplified statements that discount important factors in the process of dieting, actually posting information that helps people understand how EACH of the mechanisms, Protein/Fat/Carbohydrate, individually may affect their diet and appetite would be helpful.
    Last edited by cori93437; 08-02-2012 at 12:22 PM.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  7. #527
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    I think Choco is taking everything on the stance that the person who is dieting is already relatively healthy, has a small amount of weight to lose, and has no metabolic/psychological issues. And probably works out to boot.

    So you're both really just arguing for different sides of the coin, really.

  8. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    You know you bullet proof coffee people are going to get fat off all those empty calories, don't you. Thanks for proving me wrong that there actually are people who do it. I've never had the courage to try quite that much butter myself.
    Lots of people can even get away with it if it satiates them enough to create an energy deficit at the end of the day, but the "why aren't I losing weight?" threads I see from bulletproof coffee drinkers just make me facepalm. Whole foods are almost always more satiating calorie per calorie, which is a pretty big deal if you're trying to lose weight. That's not even taking into account nutrient density.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingofturtles View Post
    if you eat clean cals your body mainatains itself. Read the link.
    Come on, that's ridiculous. You're metabolism doesn't magically ramp itself up to burn off hundreds of calories if the food happen to be better quality.
    You might have a difficult time stepping over into the morbidly obese category on whole foods but excess get stored just as easily.
    The Carb-Sane Asylum: Is it Possible? "Smarter Science" worse than "Good" Science Journalism?

    I think the only groups that try to argue calories don't count and their diet holds some of magical properties that makes you lose weight regardless of calories consumed are Raw foodists and low carb zealots. Although the raw foodists may actually have some of valididty to their claims because it could debated that copious amounts of raw food may not get fully digested, but I think it remains to be proven.
    Last edited by Forgotmylastusername; 08-03-2012 at 12:34 AM.

  9. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
    Although the raw foodists may actually have some of valididty to their claims because it could debated that copious amounts of raw food may not get fully digested, but I think it remains to be proven.
    But undigested calories have to be counted as calories out. That's why this entire debate is so stupid. It's not a question of violating the laws of thermodynamics, it's a problem of measuring and of dependent variables.

    We can (and do) argue about how dependent the variables are (I'm personally in the "VERY" camp), but to say "Calories don't count" is like saying "Michael Jordan defies gravity." It's metaphor or hyperbole or some other literary device (allegory? onomotopoeia?), but nobody actually claims that you store less energy by having inputs greater than outputs.

  10. #530
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    I usually have a massive lunch around 12-1 PM and the most i will have before a very heavy lifting session is a coffee. I usually do get quite starving toward the end of the workout though.

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