The True Definition of Calories i.e. "Why what you believe is extremist BS" page 50

[Iron Will]

382 days to be exact.

here is the case study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00315-0056.pdf

There it is. I don't know if you (Choco) had posted this link before or not (I'm pretty sure it was you) but if these are the types of studies you're relying on to get your information from you really need to be a little more sceptical about your own information. There's no way this guy "fasted" for 382 days.

[stumprrp]

Bulletproof coffee drinker here. Actually i did 2 tbps butter and 2 tbps coconut oil so yeah a 500 calorie cup of coffee. I also lost weight while drinking this and eating 2-3 other meals during the day. I dont understand the point. Butter is good for you, so is coffee, lol.

[cori93437]

Brehm BJ, et al. A Randomized Trial Comparing a Very Low Carbohydrate Diet and a Calorie-Restricted Low Fat Diet on Body Weight and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in Healthy Women. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2003;88:1617–1623.
A Randomized Trial Comparing a Very Low Carbohydrate Diet and a Calorie-Restricted Low Fat Diet on Body Weight and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in Healthy Women
Volek JS, et al. Comparison of energy-restricted very low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets on weight loss and body composition in overweight men and women. Nutrition & Metabolism 2004, 1:13.
Nutrition & Metabolism | Full text | Comparison of energy-restricted very low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets on weight loss and body composition in overweight men and women
All of the studies above note LC vs LF with equal caloric restriction for both diets.

Also... studies that simply pit LC with LCal/LF without specific caloric restriction noted, or no caloric restriction for LC... LC wins.
Samaha FF, et al. A Low-Carbohydrate as Compared with a Low-Fat Diet in Severe Obesity. N Engl J Med 2003;348:2074–81.
MMS: Error
Sondike SB, et al. Effects of a low-carbohydrate diet on weight loss and cardiovascular risk factor in overweight adolescents. J Pediatr. 2003 Mar;142(3):253–8.
Elsevier
Aude YW, et al. The National Cholesterol Education Program Diet vs a Diet Lower in Carbohydrates and Higher in Protein and Monounsaturated Fat. A Randomized Trial. Arch Intern Med. 2004;164:2141–2146.
JAMA Network | Archives of Internal Medicine | The National Cholesterol Education Program Diet vs a Diet Lower in Carbohydrates and Higher in Protein and Monounsaturated FatA Randomized Trial
Yancy WS Jr, et al. A Low-Carbohydrate, Ketogenic Diet versus a Low-Fat Diet To Treat Obesity and Hyperlipidemia. A Randomized, Controlled Trial. Ann Intern Med. 2004;140:769–777.
A low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a l... [Ann Intern Med. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI
Shai I, et al. Weight loss with a low-carbohydrate, mediterranean, or low-fat diet. N Engl J Med 2008;359(3);229–41.
MMS: Error
Westman EC, et al. The effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low- glycemic index diet on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes mellitus. Nutr. Metab (Lond.)2008 Dec 19;5:36.
Nutrition & Metabolism | Full text | The effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low-glycemic index diet on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes mellitus
Summer SS, et al. Adiponectin Changes in Relation to the Macronutrient Composition of a Weight-Loss Diet. Obesity (Silver Spring). 2011 Mar 31. [Epub ahead of print]
http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v1...by201160a.html
Daly ME, et al. Short-term effects of severe dietary carbohydrate-restriction advice in Type 2 diabetes–a randomized controlled trial. Diabet Med. 2006 Jan;23(1):15–20.
Short-term effects of severe dietary carbohydrate-restriction advice in Type*2 diabetes—a randomized controlled trial - Daly - 2005 - Diabetic Medicine - Wiley Online Library
Westman EC, et al. The effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low- glycemic index diet on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes mellitus. Nutr. Metab (Lond.)2008 Dec 19;5:36.
Dyson PA, et al. A low-carbohydrate diet is more effective in reducing body weight than healthy eating in both diabetic and non-diabetic subjects. Diabet Med. 2007 Dec;24(12):1430-5.
A low-carbohydrate diet is more effective in redu... [Diabet Med. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI
Nutrition & Metabolism | Full text | The effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low-glycemic index diet on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes mellitus

One review of about 15 studies stated...
Discussion
"The results of the present review show that weight loss was
significantly greater in the LC/HP (treatment) group after
6 and 12 months compared with the LF/HC group."
*There was also noted improvement in blood lipids and other health markers (BP etc.)

Debunk all you like. *shrug*
Regardless of some mysterious 'metabolic advantage', or not, its easy to see that LC diets to tend to promote weight loss over and above LCal/LF diets over time.
This important to people who need to lose weight whether you like it or not.
And yes, macro inputs matter. Fat =/= sugar.
All calories being equal... LC or MC (still vastly lower than SAD) wins.

If macros weren't important I wouldn't be able to look up about 1000 references to macro ratios posted by Chaco himself I would think.

[sbhikes]

I drank a can of coconut milk once. What is that, 700 or 1400 calories. Oh my god I was so sick all day long. I never tried that again. I think at most I've put 2 tablespoons of butter in my coffee. It seems the butter in coffee thing really triggers some kind of response in fat-phobic and low-carb phobic people, a response not unlike what we were all trained to think when the whole low-fat thing came out around 1980, which I remember clearly, being old enough to remember such things.

[Lawyerchick12]

I'm 5'4. See, the thing is that on paper, 125 sounds pretty awesome, and for someone with your type of body, it probably is. However, I am pear-shaped, and the excess fat isn't where it should be; it's ALL in my stomach and thighs. So if you saw me in a bathing suit, even though I'm now around 116, I actually seem to be something more like 135-140 because of the disproportiate way the fat is arranged. If i had something that was close to a flat stomach, the scale could say 150 and I'd be fine with it, those numbers don't mean anything.

ah okay.

[Iron Will]

There are people with metabolic issues on this forum. However, they are the exception, not the norm. Look how far this Dropping grains, sugars and vegetable oils are great for your health, but if you're consuming 3,000 calories of steak, butter and avocado a day, you're not going to lose weight any faster than if you're consuming 3,000 calories of chicken breast, whole wheat pasta and soybean oil.

This blanket statement in no way understands the individual need. The idea that 3000 calories of protien and healthy fat make no difference to the body's way of metabolizing fats/lean tissue/bone density vs eating soy garbage that raises your estrogen levels, whole wheat pasta (google amylopectin) which raises your insulin levels and a lean protien, that even though it's not the best it's still pretty decent, is false.

[cori93437]

There it is. I don't know if you (Choco) had posted this link before or not (I'm pretty sure it was you) but if these are the types of studies you're relying on to get your information from you really need to be a little more sceptical about your own information. There's no way this guy "fasted" for 382 days.

I wonder if he was monitored the whole time, 24 hours a day?
That seems to be the criteria that Chaco wants for the studies posted that show LC weight loss advantage...

[Glockin Grok]

Would everyone who puts 400 calories of butter in their coffee please raise your hands?

Sometimes I think there's still a lot of fat phobia around here because the criticism is always around fat and not around protein or carbohydrates. From what I understand, if there even is a person that puts 400 calories of butter in their coffee (and I don't think there is a single person on this web site who does), isn't the point of doing that that you then feel no need to eat until dinner time? Wouldn't that actually put you ahead of the game in the CICO universe, especially compared to someone eating 600 calories of chicken and broccoli?



(Cue the lecture about empty calories. Funny how quality can be dismissed and invoked as needed.)

Raises hand... I do from time to time for breakfast

[Lawyerchick12]

I have definitely considered this years back but, now that I've truely been dedicated to doing really good leg work outs the last 6 mnths, I can actually see significant reduction in size of fat deposits. Especially in the horrbile cellulite I have on my thighs. I believe proper, consitent exercise in targeting those areas does work. It just takes a lot of time and patience. Many people give up with in a couple of months. For me, it must have just been the right time. I was sick and tired of how I looked and it was time to do something about it. I have a lot of motivation right now. This motivation was soooo not there a year ago. That's for sure.

Now for my tummy, time will tell. That one is being REALLY stubborn.

I have also considered lipo strictly for my thighs and hip area. But i am just hesistant about surgery in general. The few percentage of complications is enough to scare me. So work hard exercise wise always wins...I suppose.

[sbhikes]

You know you bullet proof coffee people are going to get fat off all those empty calories, don't you. Thanks for proving me wrong that there actually are people who do it. I've never had the courage to try quite that much butter myself.