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Thread: The True Definition of Calories i.e. "Why what you believe is extremist BS" page 35

  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Hence why I found this thread completely useless....maybe frustrating is a better word.

    Everyone on here who thought you could eat more than what you expend and lose weight raise your hand (I see no hands).

    Now everyone who believes that the make up of your diet effects hormonal changes that could make weight loss easier and/or can contribute to helping preserve lean mass and selectively burn fat raise your hand (I'm guessing we got some takers here). And this is where interesting things are actually still being debated and learned.

    Anyone who thinks that being thin/ripped via just CICO and exercise automatically makes you healthy raise your hand (there is stackingplates waving in the back....probably not many others though).

    My neighbor lives on Mountain Dew and cigarettes....dude is ultra ripped since thats about all he ingests. So if weight loss is the end goal I highly recommend his diet.
    Round, dammit. The earth is round. You're all misguided idiots to continue insisting on it being flat.

  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    Yeah, I was not dieting at all since I was sick in Moscow. So far, I gained 5 or so lbs, got the first high blood sugar alert yesterday by getting a dizzy light-headed episode, and look like shit and at least regained the ability to control food intake somewhat, though I am not counting. Sugar is not something I should be consuming, even in fruit, but added sugar should be a huge no-no, or I am likely to end up diabetic. Gonna do blood sugar as a part of the yearly blood-work after I am back next week. Keeping fingers crossed I did not do lasting damage with all the ice-cream, fruit and candy of the last two weeks.
    Why would fruit make you diabetic? There's no evidence supporting that. Grains and PUFA's I'll agree with you, but that's due to toxins and the hormone dysregulation that comes from a high PUFA diet loaded with inflammatory lectins.

    I strongly doubt what you have is blood sugar related from eating too much carbohydrate. What you're experiencing is probably from too low sodium intake and ensuing dehydration or from chronically undereating from years of serial dieting that has made you hypothyroid. Get your T3/T4/rT3/TSH checked. I would bet anything you're hypothyroid, in which case a high fruit diet rich in iodized salt is exactly what you need.

    I average twice as much carbohydrate now as I did when I started Primal a year and a half ago. My fasting blood glucose has fallen from 80 (low carb constantly) to 73.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Then you're in agreement with me - when it comes to "weight" loss, it pretty much comes down to the energy deficit. The Primal Blueprint has an advantage for weight loss not because of some magical metabolic advantage that doesn't let your body store whole foods as fat, but because whole foods will provide better satiety and more nutrition per calorie, typically making a caloric deficit easier to handle from a sustainability standpoint.

    However, that doesn't mean there "is absolutely nothing wrong with consuming them." There is a whole lot wrong with them. Health and body composition are two very, very different things. There are plenty of boneheads out there eating shit food and just tracking their macros because they don't care about their health or they're completely ignorant to health. If you want a diet of protein powder, pseudo cheesecake, egg substitute, gluten and rancid oil, that's your call. I would rather have a higher body fat and be healthier. Look at the facts: body builders are typically NOT healthy. They do not have long lifespans. People that live the longest, healthiest lives are almost always of average body composition.
    I'm almost in total agreement with you. Your energy deficit theories are sound, this we agree upon. Where we still disagree is that eating some of those example foods is wrong assuming person is meeting their macro/micro/caloric goals. You are giving examples of "boneheads" who you make it sound like all they eat is the example foods listed in the post I've quoted. This is quite a strawman because I've never once came into this thread with the position that this is either realistic, sustainable, or healthy. If folks like this exist, they will not be hitting macro and micro goals and so the example is invalid. Your comments on bodybuilders and "average compositions" living the longest is another rat hole but we don't have to get into that because I agree with the theme of this thread and don't want it derailed any more than it is already. Thanks again for posting this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer
    Anyone who thinks that being thin/ripped via just CICO and exercise automatically makes you healthy raise your hand (there is stackingplates waving in the back....probably not many others though).
    Why single me out here, kind Sir? Please aware me of any posts I've made in this thread where I haven't clearly said caloric, micro, and macro needs must be met? If these goals are met while still eating what you (assuming) consider junk then how is this "unhealthy"?
    Last edited by StackingPlates; 07-31-2012 at 10:02 AM.

  4. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by StackingPlates View Post
    Why single me out here, kind Sir? Please aware me of any posts I've made in this thread where I haven't clearly said caloric, micro, and macro needs must be met? If these goals are met while still eating what you (assuming) consider junk then how is this "unhealthy"?
    Well the reason I single you out is your are one of maybe three people on the Primal forum who has no interest in eating Primal....but beyond that let me see if I understand your philosophy correctly.

    You do make that "micro and macro" statement......So, if I'm following you right and we are assuming a 2000 calorie diet...we can eat very nutritious foods to the tune of say 1000 calories meeting all of our micro and macro needs. Then whatever the other 1000 calories are made up of does not matter as long as we are still at our maintenance level? This is healthy. No repercussions on health since your not going above maintenance levels. There is no need to eat "clean" cause that is just a fad. Is this about correct?

  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    "What am I doing wrong?"

    "I can't lose weight no matter what I do!"

    "I couldn't lose weight on 1,200 calories a day but now can on 3,000 calories a day!"

    "I ate carbs and gained 5 lbs!"

    "Calories don't matter! It's all about insulin/leptin/insert hormone here."


    How many of these sensational, emotion-driven and completely ridiculous statements and thread titles do we see here on MDA on a daily basis? So much of what is sold in the health and fitness community is complete bullshit. People take extremist stances to play on people's emotions and capitalize on these emotions by telling people what they want to hear. The cornerstone of American society is becoming not taking responsibility for your own actions and blaming someone else. This is the mindset bloggers, gurus and authorities take advantage of. There are 10,000 different stories on this website alone where people were on 1,000 calorie a day deficits and couldn't lose weight but now eat whatever they want and lose as long as the foods are "Primal-approved."

    In short, people hate the word "calorie." A calorie suggests that people get fat by eating too much and not exercising enough - it basically says people who are overweight are lazy and gluttonous. Yea, it's not nice, but sugar-coating isn't approved on The Primal Blueprint, so deal with it. This is the weakness in people that the so-called "gurus" exploit to take your hard-earned money. Funny how people are so resistant to personal criticism yet have no problem being taken advantage of financially.

    Alas, this is where "context" comes in. I strongly suggest EVERYONE read this. Why? Because it's absolutely brilliant.

    The Sensible Middle Part 1 In Defence of Calories | Core Concepts Wellness

    I'd love to hear people's thoughts.
    This was a terrific article. Thanks for the link, Choco.

    I've found, after much experimentation, that if I don't log what I'm eating (for me, via LoseIt, which logs the calories and exercise, etc.), then I usually overeat -- whether primal, paleo, SAD, or what have you. For me, logging/calorie counting keeps me honest. That, combined with primal/paleo, seems to work best for me. At least for now, while I have weight/fat that I would prefer to lose. I'd like to get to a point when I can trust my body's reactions and know when I've eaten enough/if I'm really hungry/what have you, but I know I'm not there yet.

    And now, to read the 35+ pages of comments...

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Well the reason I single you out is your are one of maybe three people on the Primal forum who has no interest in eating Primal....but beyond that let me see if I understand your philosophy correctly.

    You do make that "micro and macro" statement......So, if I'm following you right and we are assuming a 2000 calorie diet...we can eat very nutritious foods to the tune of say 1000 calories meeting all of our micro and macro needs. Then whatever the other 1000 calories are made up of does not matter as long as we are still at our maintenance level? This is healthy. No repercussions on health since your not going above maintenance levels. There is no need to eat "clean" cause that is just a fad. Is this about correct?
    AKA one of the few who chooses not to arbitrarily restrict food choices for no reason other than to subscribe to fancy cavemen marketing gimmicks

    I doubt your exampled numbers are realistic...eating clean to me means nothing more than washing your food before consuming....

  7. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by StackingPlates View Post
    AKA one of the few who chooses not to arbitrarily restrict food choices for no reason other than to subscribe to fancy cavemen marketing gimmicks

    I doubt your exampled numbers are realistic...eating clean to me means nothing more than washing your food before consuming....
    Is that what you think of the rest of us? That we've bought into some gimmick?

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    Yeah, I was not dieting at all since I was sick in Moscow. So far, I gained 5 or so lbs, got the first high blood sugar alert yesterday by getting a dizzy light-headed episode, and look like shit and at least regained the ability to control food intake somewhat, though I am not counting. Sugar is not something I should be consuming, even in fruit, but added sugar should be a huge no-no, or I am likely to end up diabetic. Gonna do blood sugar as a part of the yearly blood-work after I am back next week. Keeping fingers crossed I did not do lasting damage with all the ice-cream, fruit and candy of the last two weeks.
    this fear of sugar stuff is quite mind numbing. you did not do any permanent damage in those last 2 weeks. if anything, thats the most nourishing 2 weeks you have had in a long time. most of the 5 pound gain was glycogen/water weight.
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  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nady View Post
    Is that what you think of the rest of us? That we've bought into some gimmick?
    Only those that mandate that it's required to be healthy, or to lose weight, or has some advantage over other lifestyle choices.

    For those that realize it is one of many methods to achieve health and happiness (better than some, worse than others) then you are one step ahead of the game...

  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by StackingPlates View Post
    Only those that mandate that it's required to be healthy, or to lose weight, or has some advantage over other lifestyle choices.

    For those that realize it is one of many methods to achieve health and happiness (better than some, worse than others) then you are one step ahead of the game...
    You know, for every food related issue I have, *there's a pill for that* I suppose I could do the CW thing and keep eating foods that make me ill, and take the recommended medication. I realize that there are some here that think this is just another 'fad' diet worth trying, but I also think criticizers like you, have no idea what a lifesaver it is for the rest of us.

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