The True Definition of Calories i.e. "Why what you believe is extremist BS" page 32

[StackingPlates]

That's reality. And that shit'll get your ripped. Because it comes down to calories and macros in the overwhelming majority of cases. Health is an entirely different matter. I don't mind being 12% bf with a fasting blood glucose of 73 on a "high carb diet" according to most Primals, and a 260 lb benchpress at 145 lb body weight and an HDL of 95. I'll lose those numbers eating this shit, and that's not scare-mongering but reality. Your call.

What will get you ripped is working your ass off consistently and maintaining macro/micro/caloric requirements over a long period of time. If those foods fit within your caloric and micro/macro goals then there is absolutely nothing wrong with consuming them. It sounds as if your Facebook group has many examples which supports this logic...

When folks say you must abstain from things like this (not singling you out) and only eat food x or food y to lose weight then that is fear mongering at it's finest (worst?)...it creates very unhealthy relationships with food.

[Paleobird]

It may be stressful at first, but you learn how do handle it over time- just like cooking might be stressful.

It's actually probably not a bad idea for everyone to do for awhile once they go Primal just to kind of understand what they are eating. Especially if you are switiching over from low fat, high volume it is probably helpful to have an idea if the whole "eat as much as you need"isn't working.

I think this is a good idea too, even if your goal is not weight loss. Just a periodic check in to see where things stand. You might be surprised that your ratios are not really what you thought they were. Or you might find a micronutrient deficiency. Or, as Magnolia did, figure out a food intolerance issue. Tracking can be very useful. It doesn't cause stress unless you let it.

[noodletoy]

Originally Posted by noodletoy
except for the bagel (erm, why is it sticky?) everything else just looks like barf. i can't really fathom what any of it is.

since you can't tell a donut from a bagel, i'm not exactly shocked at your inability to fathom the other things.

HA!! LMFAO. not a bad thing, i guess. i never did like donuts.

[Paleomom4]

So question about counting calories.....I started paleo this Spring and I've gained 10 pounds. Some of it is muscle, but I still have a lot of fat to get rid of. So, I started counting calories (I use myfooddiary.com). How do I know which level of calories to eat to for weight loss? Do I do a BMR calculator and subtract 500 from that? If I did that, my BMR is about 1400 so I would have to eat 900 calories? I CAN'T do that.

Does anyone know of a good formula for those of us who need to count calories to lose?

[StackingPlates]

Try using Katch-McArdle and/or purchase a BodyBugg.

No, don't use a hard number, use a percentage. ~5-10% is typically a good starting deficit...

[otzi]

So question about counting calories.....I started paleo this Spring and I've gained 10 pounds. Some of it is muscle, but I still have a lot of fat to get rid of. So, I started counting calories (I use myfooddiary.com). How do I know which level of calories to eat to for weight loss? Do I do a BMR calculator and subtract 500 from that? If I did that, my BMR is about 1400 so I would have to eat 900 calories? I CAN'T do that.

Does anyone know of a good formula for those of us who need to count calories to lose?

The only thing that worked for me in regards to counting calories & BMR, was track what I ate in FitDay and see where my maintenance was. Then eat 500 cals a day less based on that. Calculators, calorie content labels, and charts are all woefully misleading--let your body be your guide.

Using FitDay, I plugged in my daily numbers. It said I was eating roughly 2200 calories a day, but when I would add up the calorie count based on package labels or other on-line calculators, the same food would come out to 2500-3000 calories. Also, don't be misled by 'calories burned' calculators or the 'calories burned' indicator built into a treadmill or other gym equipment. Not at all worth using to figure your caloric goals.

[sbhikes]

HA!! LMFAO. not a bad thing, i guess. i never did like donuts.

Don't feel bad. I thought it was a wet gooey bagel, too. It still looks more like a bagel to me than a donut but I can see now it's just a shiny plate and not wetness. Still. Ew. If I ate that I'd feel like crap.

Did anybody read this guest post a couple weeks ago? Ancient Wisdom Confirmed by Modern Science | Mark's Daily Apple Apparently they did studies on people and showed that when they split a group of people into those that ate high quality calories and those that ate poor quality calories, even though they were the same amount of calories, the ones eating high quality calories lost a lot more weight.

Also they did a study where people didn't eat anything and the fat people consumed more of their body's muscle and much less of their body's fat than the thinner people who didn't even have as much fat available to consume. There's a hormonal factor involved that dude bros tend to overlook. I'd go further to speculate that if hormones are a factor, people with more changeable hormones, such as women and older women, will have more to think about than just calories in/out.

As far as exercise goes, looks like for me exercising at top cardio speed all day long at high altitude does the trick. Too bad that's not sustainable.

[cantare]

So question about counting calories.....I started paleo this Spring and I've gained 10 pounds. Some of it is muscle, but I still have a lot of fat to get rid of. So, I started counting calories (I use myfooddiary.com). How do I know which level of calories to eat to for weight loss? Do I do a BMR calculator and subtract 500 from that? If I did that, my BMR is about 1400 so I would have to eat 900 calories? I CAN'T do that.

Does anyone know of a good formula for those of us who need to count calories to lose?

I can't suggest one, though someone posted a calculator site upthread that has several versions. But since both calorie content in specific foods and your own energy expenditure can only be approximated by formulas, why not take an empirical approach? Track what you normally eat for a month or two, and observe the change in weight (or better yet, actual bodyfat%, although that's less convenient to measure reliably.) No matter whether you're stalled, gaining, or losing, there's your baseline, and using 3500 cal/lb you can work out your own personalized "break-even point" where burning and intake are balanced. (Both numbers might be wildly inaccurate as absolute figures, but their relationship is what's important.)

Once you've got your apparent TDEE specific to myfooddiary (or whatever site), you can dial in a corresponding intake reduction to achieve your goal over the desired time-span. If you keep eating the same pattern of foods/macros & maintain the same activity level otherwise, then you should be able to predict fat loss, so long as the restriction you undertake isn't so radical as to drop your BMR.

I've done this on fitday, and it's about the only method I found useful. I haven't had to go hungry to lose weight (yet), but I tracked out of curiosity. I could never make my observed loss line up with my tracked deficit no matter which fancy BMR formula I used, nor with popular hacks like double-counting sleep hours. But with an empirical BMR and consistent estimates for exercise METs (uphill walks mostly), it became a decent predictive tool.

ETA--man, I hate it when people say the same thing as me in half the time and half the space with double the clarity...@otzi

[Paleomom4]

I can't suggest one, though someone posted a calculator site upthread that has several versions. But since both calorie content in specific foods and your own energy expenditure can only be approximated by formulas, why not take an empirical approach? Track what you normally eat for a month or two, and observe the change in weight (or better yet, actual bodyfat%, although that's less convenient to measure reliably.) No matter whether you're stalled, gaining, or losing, there's your baseline, and using 3500 cal/lb you can work out your own personalized "break-even point" where burning and intake are balanced. (Both numbers might be wildly inaccurate as absolute figures, but their relationship is what's important.)

Once you've got your apparent TDEE specific to myfooddiary (or whatever site), you can dial in a corresponding intake reduction to achieve your goal over the desired time-span. If you keep eating the same pattern of foods/macros & maintain the same activity level otherwise, then you should be able to predict fat loss, so long as the restriction you undertake isn't so radical as to drop your BMR.

I've done this on fitday, and it's about the only method I found useful. I haven't had to go hungry to lose weight (yet), but I tracked out of curiosity. I could never make my observed loss line up with my tracked deficit no matter which fancy BMR formula I used, nor with popular hacks like double-counting sleep hours. But with an empirical BMR and consistent estimates for exercise METs (uphill walks mostly), it became a decent predictive tool.

ETA--man, I hate it when people say the same thing as me in half the time and half the space with double the clarity...@otzi

I like it. To use this method I'd have to be patient for a few months while I track. I'm not a patient person. BUT, I'm willing to try something like this. Couldn't the same thing be achieved by picking a number recommended by one of the calculators and start with that. If I see loss happening, great. If not, adjust.

I do know for sure that the machines and HRM's are way off as far as exercise. I don't wear one anymore. I actually would prefer not to factor in my exercise at all if possible. I'm a pretty active person so I'd like to just focus on my eating and calories.

[Sue]

Don't feel bad. I thought it was a wet gooey bagel, too. It still looks more like a bagel to me than a donut but I can see now it's just a shiny plate and not wetness. Still. Ew. If I ate that I'd feel like crap.

Did anybody read this guest post a couple weeks ago? Ancient Wisdom Confirmed by Modern Science | Mark's Daily Apple Apparently they did studies on people and showed that when they split a group of people into those that ate high quality calories and those that ate poor quality calories, even though they were the same amount of calories, the ones eating high quality calories lost a lot more weight.

Also they did a study where people didn't eat anything and the fat people consumed more of their body's muscle and much less of their body's fat than the thinner people who didn't even have as much fat available to consume. There's a hormonal factor involved that dude bros tend to overlook. I'd go further to speculate that if hormones are a factor, people with more changeable hormones, such as women and older women, will have more to think about than just calories in/out.

As far as exercise goes, looks like for me exercising at top cardio speed all day long at high altitude does the trick. Too bad that's not sustainable.

Evelyn posted about the guest poster Jonathan Bailor and certain studies:
The Carb-Sane Asylum: The Smarter Science of Slim ~ General Thoughts
The Carb-Sane Asylum: Is it Possible? "Smarter Science" worse than "Good" Science Journalism?