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Thread: The True Definition of Calories i.e. "Why what you believe is extremist BS" page 10

  1. #91
    BestBetter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    For people that "eat 1200 calories on SAD and don't lose weight," 99% of the time they are not properly reporting their food intake. As studies show, this can affect calories by almost 50% - overweight people tend to underreport calories by up to 50% and underweight people tend to overreport. That's a fact.

    In the rare case with someone with hypothyroidism or some severe metabolic genetic disorder, they may have such a slow metabolism that a calculator that puts them at a TDEE of 1,900 where they're really at 1,200 just for maintenance...well, there's a big issue there.
    You have some good insight, and I generally enjoy reading your posts, but you have a tendency to throw out some wild accusations that aren't grounded in reality which unfortunately discredit a lot of the good stuff you have to contribute.

    Hypothyroidism is not rare, first of all. You even said in one of your epic threads a few months back that the reason many people are likely suffering from worse health after switching to primal is that the massive amount of sugar and salt they were eating on their SAD was keeping their thyroid afloat, and with those gone their thyroid is tanking.

    From http://www.endocrineweb.com/conditio...yroid-hormone:

    The estimates vary, but approximately 10 million Americans have this common medical condition. In fact, as many as 10% of women may have some degree of thyroid hormone deficiency. Hypothyroidism is more common than you would believe, and millions of people are currently hypothyroid and don't know it.




    Also, this is an excerpt from your opening post on 'Sugar Isn't the Problem':
    "...These things, along with chronic stress from every day life, leave cortisol levels constantly elevated. Cortisol is the stress hormone, and when it is elevated, it is destroying your body. This will make you hold onto fat, it will make your hair fall out, it will ruin your mood and destroy your sex drive."

    If caloric underreporting was the REAL reason that 99% of people aren't losing weight, why would cortisol matter? I don't doubt that many people DO underreport, but it's disingenuous to claim one minute that people are fat because of stress-induced cortisol, and the next minute take it back and claim it's just about underreporting calories.
    Last edited by BestBetter; 07-26-2012 at 07:42 AM.

  2. #92
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    For people that "eat 1200 calories on SAD and don't lose weight," 99% of the time they are not properly reporting their food intake. As studies show, this can affect calories by almost 50% - overweight people tend to underreport calories by up to 50% and underweight people tend to overreport. That's a fact.
    That is what makes me want to crack you upside the head.


    I weigh and measure foods. I get out the fucking tablespoon for my creamer. I measure the butter. I weigh the chicken. I track everything in Live Strong, even the 1/4 cup of measured blueberries and the 10 stalks of asparagus that go under my two LARGE eggs (tracked as large). I'm not alone.... as evidenced here.

    I think one thing that maybe not all people have had to deal with is that some of us have been dieting since really young ages. Choco, I've been counting calories since I was 12. Journaling and measuring my food intake in hopes of losing weight. I guess you can call it yoyo dieting. I'd be interested to know the number of people who have had good success eating primal that have tried and failed more than 10 times on other diets. I'm willing to bet that about a third of women have tried to diet 10 or more times with very low caloric intakes.

    I know I have read articles about how repetitive dieting- gaining and losing fat can make weightloss that much harder.

    I guess for me, I don't know if it is worth it to lose more weight. For sure, I'll stay primal for life. But really at what point do you just say fuck it and eat like a normal (healthy, whole food eating) primal person and walk away from trying to eliminate one more otherwise healthy item that *might* be the silver bullet? And are we (meaning people who really restrict calories even on primal) just setting ourselves up to struggle more down the road?

    That attitude- "Oh, you are just eating 2000 calories and added wrong" is what is frustrating. No, there is something else at play, but I have no clue what- because I feel great and am otherwise healthy. Just carry around excess fat.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    You have some good insight, and I generally enjoy reading your posts, but you have a tendency to throw out some wild accusations that aren't grounded in reality which unfortunately discredit a lot of the good stuff you have to contribute.

    Hypothyroidism is not rare, first of all. You even said in one of your epic threads a few months back that the reason many people are likely suffering from worse health after switching to primal is that the massive amount of sugar and salt they were eating on their SAD was keeping their thyroid afloat, and with those gone their thyroid is tanking.

    From http://www.endocrineweb.com/conditio...yroid-hormone:

    The estimates vary, but approximately 10 million Americans have this common medical condition. In fact, as many as 10% of women may have some degree of thyroid hormone deficiency. Hypothyroidism is more common than you would believe, and millions of people are currently hypothyroid and don't know it.




    Also, this is an excerpt from your opening post on 'Sugar Isn't the Problem':
    "...These things, along with chronic stress from every day life, leave cortisol levels constantly elevated. Cortisol is the stress hormone, and when it is elevated, it is destroying your body. This will make you hold onto fat, it will make your hair fall out, it will ruin your mood and destroy your sex drive."

    If caloric underreporting was the REAL reason that 99% of people aren't losing weight, why would cortisol matter? I don't doubt that many people DO underreport, but it's disingenuous to claim one minute that people are fat because of stress-induced cortisol, and the next minute take it back and claim it's just about underreporting calories.
    Choco's been drinking the Peat koolaid a bit. Don't worry after he investigates a bit further he should come to the conclusion that its bunk.

  4. #94
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    I just want to ask a few seemingly glaringly obvious questions. Perhaps someone can answer them for me.

    1. Do you think that the average Grok (male of female) was overweight and why?

    2. How did Grok count his/her calories?

    3. In the winter time especially and in the dead of summer, when plants and water are typically hard to come by, where did Grok get all his carbs from?

    4. Do you think that after waking and seeing some left over Mammoth/sloth/bear/cat/squirrel or even lets say cherries/apples/grapes that he/she said, "Naw, I'm going to wait until after run away from the local pack of wolves before I have breakfast."

  5. #95
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    There are a lot of variables. For eg., I'd venture that a lot of the people who don't think calories matter at all are under 40 males. You guys have metabolisms (because of musculature) that most women would kill for.

    There are lots of studies that show that the ratios of prot/carbs do matter in losing weight more quickly. The higher protein "diets," work a bit faster. That doesn't mean calorie restriction doesn't work for people who eat rice or bread, just that it takes a little longer. You aren't what you ate yesterday, you're what you've eaten in the last couple of years.

    The average woman absolutely can get enough protein on 1200 cal per day:

    7 oz pork loin fat trimmed ~54.6 gms protein
    5-1/3 oz (1/3 of a pound) 95% ground beef ~39.4 gms protein
    2 large eggs ~ 12.6 gms protein

    Total for the above ~106.6 gms of protein in about 570 calories.
    Leaving ~630 calories for veggies, fruit, etc. - even more protein if one desires.

    I also agree with the OP that measurement of non liquid foods should be in weighed ounces. Using a deck of cards, the palm of one's hand or a "handful" is too inexact.

    While I'm sure that environmental factors, especially chronic low grade stress, can make a difference, there can be no doubt that calories matter. If you fill up your car with too much gas, it will spill out. When you fill up a human with more energy than it can use (since a calorie is a measure of energy), it will get fat.

  6. #96
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    Choco, here again is an excerpt from one of your posts from a few months ago. If eating 500 fewer calories while putting on fat made you say, WFT?! then I'm sure you can understand why millions of others have the same reaction. Maybe you've forgotten?

    "Most of my calories were around 2,500. I was regularly consuming fat in the 150g/day range. My protein was about the same, and my carbs were about the same as what I eat now because while I didn't do large refeeds like I do now, I ate fruit every single day. Now, I stopped putting oil on my salad and use just vinegar, I started cooking things in stock instead of oil, I don't eat fruit on days I don't lift meaning off days are much lower carb now, and I'm averaging 500 calories/day LESS now even though I'm the same weight but have CONSIDERABLY more muscle. Basically, I should have a HIGHER maintenance calorie level NOW and I'm eating LESS, yet I'm getting fatter eating less calories. WTF?"

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread56376.html

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Will View Post
    I just want to ask a few seemingly glaringly obvious questions. Perhaps someone can answer them for me.

    1. Do you think that the average Grok (male of female) was overweight and why?

    2. How did Grok count his/her calories?

    3. In the winter time especially and in the dead of summer, when plants and water are typically hard to come by, where did Grok get all his carbs from?

    4. Do you think that after waking and seeing some left over Mammoth/sloth/bear/cat/squirrel or even lets say cherries/apples/grapes that he/she said, "Naw, I'm going to wait until after run away from the local pack of wolves before I have breakfast."
    And if I may ask one more, did all the Groks live in one place? Or are we talking Tropical Grok or North American Grok or South American Grok or some other place Grok? (Ok maybe that is two more questions)
    65lbs gone and counting!!

    Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

  8. #98
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    Weight, fat %, and body type are somewhat predetermined by genetics. What everyone really needs is to go where they are supposed to be. The only way to do this is to live a perfectly healthy life. A good start is to eat and exercise right for yourself--not what somebody thinks you should be doing--but what works for you.

    Other hacks to getting to your genetic potential are:
    - Observe seasonal variances in food consumption (The Question of Seasonality in Human Health and Nutrition | Mark's Daily Apple)
    - Be extremely mindful of night/day cycles (Will Blue Light Affect Your Sleep? | Mark's Daily Apple)
    - Experience cold weather in Winter (10 Ways to Stay Active in the Cold Winter Months | Mark's Daily Apple)
    - Find a doctor that will test key labs and get to the optimum reference range (How to Read a Cholesterol Test | Mark's Daily Apple)
    - Practice some type of intermittant fasting (Intermittent Fasting FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions | Mark's Daily Apple)
    - Learn to breathe correctly ( How to Breathe Correctly | Mark's Daily Apple)

    There is just so much more than CICO and lifting heavy things...

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    - Find a doctor that will test key labs and get to the optimum reference range (How to Read a Cholesterol Test | Mark's Daily Apple)

    There is just so much more than CICO and lifting heavy things...
    I love all your input. Thank you.

    One time I had asked in a thread, but I think it got lost. But OP mentioned all the possible things that could be wrong with a person, but how do you know for sure unless you are tested? My thread was the question that if I went to the doctor, what should I test for?

    It has been a year ago, but thyroid was okay. Not pre-menie yet, but that was over a year ago. This past spring, I only had cholesterol done, and it was okay as was BP.

    I am not sure what "key labs" are, but if I just say I want to test the key ones, is that standard enough and I will get all the right ones done that I need to know?
    65lbs gone and counting!!

    Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

  10. #100
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    I read the text a couple of days ago and thought that the guys was contradicting himself a bit. Let me explain.

    He goes on about saying that a calorie is a calorie and that in order to lose weight you need to be in a calorie deficit. Most people on weight loss programs would probably agree. I've always believed in that concept but at the same time find it a bit limiting. (more on that later). He goes on explaining how cabs are not evil and that you could lose weight on a Twinkie diet and as a matter of fact, this is something I also believe is possible. Hell, I'm sure I could lose weight eating nothing but McDonald's cheeseburgers and fries as long as I had a calorie deficit.

    However, where I think he contradicts himself a bit though, or maybe it's not necessarily a contradiction, is that he goes on to tell that people who eat more proteins tend to eat something like 400 calories (or was it 700) less a day with carbs usually taking the hit. So on the one hand he says that the macro breakdown doesn't matter for weight loss but calories do. Then he tells us that if you eat more of a certain macro, you'll eat less and more easily be in a calorie deficit. Kind of a contradiction no?

    As for calorie counting. Been on a diet for 20 months now, losing 90 pounds along the way. Been Primal since last November or so. Started the diet in November 2010 where I was weighing and measuring stuff but not really counting. Lost 40 pounds in 9 months. Then, I started counting and writing everything I ate, entering stuff in MyPlate and lost 30 pounds in 3 months or so then another 16 or so for the next 6 months. Recently I had hit quite the plateau. Been stuck between 241 and 247 for the past 2 and a half month. Two weeks ago I decided to stop measuring/weighing food and stopped writing everything down. Lost about 4 or 5 pounds since and am now finally under 240 pounds for the first time in like 10 years. I was sick and tired of being stuck at a plateau, sick and tired of calorie intake dictating how much I ate every day. Some days I had no calories left but was still hungry. Other days I had calories left and was no longer hungry. So I decided to trust my body to tell me when it's hungry or not and just eat if I'm hungry, all this as Primal as possible except for the odd time where I drift to the 20%.

    So far it's been fairly easy and I found that I'm actually eating less for lunch as I'm usually not that hungry. Before, I used to bring in a full lunch including meat, veggies and a fruit. Now, it's usually veggies, one egg or a bit of cheese. My breakfast hasn't changed as I've been eating a combination of eggs, meat, nuts, fruits and/or veggies for a while now. Dinner, I no longer weigh the meat. I put a chunk in my plate and stop eating when I've had enough. I usually eat all my veggies first anyway so by the time I get to the meat, I'm already starting to be full. It's not always easy though. 10 years of bad habits are sometimes hard to shake up so sometimes it's a real fight to resist snacking while watching tv even though I'm not hungry. There used to be a time where I always snacked by habit, hungry or not. Now I'm just starting to be able to listen to the signals sent to me by my body and am actually starting to be able to interpret it and do what needs to be done... or not done. Same with thirst. A few articles on liquid consumption in a day opened my eyes. I used to sip water all day long and would end up peeing pretty much once per hour. Now I listen to my body and only drink if I'm thirsty and that has been working quite well for me as well.

    Bottom line, your body will tell you when it's hungry. It's up to you to give it what it needs.

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