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Thread: Was reading Taubs' "Why we get fat" this morning and found this page 2

  1. #11
    tfarny's Avatar
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    Primal Fuel
    Quote Originally Posted by lambchop View Post
    Oh no, I was working on the assumpton Taubes got it right and insulin control was key and low carb is why Dhukan diet is so successful. I am so confused...
    Just follow the primal blueprint and figure it out for yourself. For some people, apparently, staying low carb is key for them. For others, not. I'm not saying low carbing isn't good for an overweight person, I'm saying that it is not the whole story. You'll be ok.
    If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambchop View Post
    Oh no, I was working on the assumpton Taubes got it right and insulin control was key and low carb is why Dhukan diet is so successful. I am so confused...
    It's relatively well known (in these circles anyway) that people spontaneously reduce their calorie consumption when eating a low carb diet, because they are eating protein and fats (which is what is left once you reduce carbs) which are more satiating.

    When calories are strictly controlled there is NO difference in weight loss between people eating HFLC vs LFHC.

    Still, I think that there are two big benefits to primal compared to a conventional calorie restricted diet:
    1. You are eating tasty food you enjoy rather than tasteless low fat foods
    2. You don't have feedmefeedmefeedme low blood sugar moments every three hours because you are fat adapted rather than running on glucose
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
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    bloodorchid is always right

  3. #13
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    Am I really the only person who's calories increased when I made the switch to eating more fat/protein? I went from the SAD of 1200-1400 cals per day and now eat 2200-2600 a day!!! And yes I have lost all of my weight and I am active and healthy. What helped me the most was switching to all grass-fed, wild, natural meats and raw dairy!! Once I had completely switched over everything fell into place. I don't count often but every once in a while run a few days just to see and am always amazed at how high my calories are now compared to the days of constant dieting and restricting.

  4. #14
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    What Taubes got right is that all of the correlative, epidemiological diet studies kept barking up the wrong trees with reallypoor study designs.

    What he got wrong is over simplifyinging the issue to carbs/insulin. His writings would be more valuable if he did an auto-replace to change every instance of "insulin" to "a suite of interacting metabolic hormones"

  5. #15
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    Taubes deals with Guynet adequately here:

    Catching up on lost time

    But this piece rises to the level of comedy:

    Hyperlipid: The Flatline Days

    The fact of the matter is low carb diets do work. That was demonstrated by controlled experiments at the Middlesex Hospital over half a century ago now. However, an astonishingly large number fo people simply cannot cope with the fact and don't want to let go of their false but comfortable paradigm.

  6. #16
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    Maybe I should clarify:

    High carb makes me fat, and no one wants to see that naked.

    Moderate carb makes me mentally healthy with a good attitude and a reasonably decent body.

    Low carb makes me into a obnoxious, critical, irritable shrew, and I don't care how lean I get, no one wants to see a raging bitch naked. At least not without earplugs.
    My sorely neglected blog - http://ThatWriterBroad.com

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RitaRose View Post
    Maybe I should clarify:

    High carb makes me fat, and no one wants to see that naked.

    Moderate carb makes me mentally healthy with a good attitude and a reasonably decent body.

    Low carb makes me into a obnoxious, critical, irritable shrew, and I don't care how lean I get, no one wants to see a raging bitch naked. At least not without earplugs.
    Lol! This has to be the best explanation I've ever seen for why I don't do VLC.
    “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

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  8. #18
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    Also note...

    Magic, I'm not sure that your assertion is entirely correct. When calories are controlled in studies comparing low-carbohydrate and high-carbohydrate diets, there are significant differences in weight loss. In the 4-8 weeks studies, it is on the order of around 10 pounds. I do not have the studies on hand, but would be happy to look them up if you give me a few days -- I'm about to go out of town and will not have the time in the immediate future. If I remember correctly, there is at least one dating back to the 1960s -- however, that could be the study in which the low-carbohydrate group self-regulated their caloric intake. Nevertheless, there was recently a preliminary communication in the Journal of the American Medical Association which very decisively illustrated that individuals on a low-carbohydrate diet burned, on average, 300 more calories per day than individuals on a high-carbohydrate diet. In other words, there is a description of weight loss by HFLC in an isocaloric diet comparison. I'm sure that further confirmation will be both required and provided; however, there is a big difference in weight loss "between people eating HFLC vs LFHC." There is, of course, more to the story than my half-assed summary, Again, that was in the Journal of the American Medical Association, from June 27, 2012. The article is entitled, "Effects of dietary composition on energy expenditure during weight-loss maintenance," Ebbeling et al. Have a great night!

    Edit: Also note that the total amount of exercise between the groups in the study was kept constant. Basically, all things being as equal as possible, those individuals on a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet will burn significantly more calories per day than any other study group. Does that equate to increased weight loss? Probably, but more data is required. Was fun, good night!
    Last edited by GeoMike; 07-23-2012 at 08:44 PM. Reason: Forgot to clarify the exercise issue.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoMike View Post
    Magic, I'm not sure that your assertion is entirely correct.
    It's entirely possible that I'm wrong. I was going off of this post by Anthony Colpo eviscerating Dr Michael Eades (who *does* think that there is a low carb metabolic advantage).

    I find Anthony Colpo credible as a source, because he presents his facts in a transparent way that makes it easy to call him on his BS (hint: there isn't any aside from the schoolyard bullying). He has such an inflammatory style that I would imagine that Dr Eades would be all over any errors in his post.
    Last edited by magicmerl; 07-23-2012 at 09:36 PM.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

  10. #20
    GeoMike's Avatar
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    Hi again. I couldn't sleep so I read the blog posts and the articles cited therein suggested by you, magicmerl. I was not very impressed by either side of the argument. It was clear, however, that Anthony Colpo did not know or realize that many of the studies he cited were not isocaloric studies, but, rather, were caloric-adjusted. It seemed as though he had some difficulty interpreting the data. I did think that Dr. Eades's argument was less than spectacular as well. That being said, and although I did appreciate the link, I will not likely be reading more of Mr. Colpo's work as I did, indeed, find it incredibly inflammatory and executed in an extremely petty manner. I realize that he may have been making an attempt at humor or trying to suggest an ironic, tough-guy facade -- it's just not for me. I would hazard a guess that this Dr. Eades has not responded because it is not worth his time.

    Plus, while browsing his website I found that he has some sort of ongoing legal dispute with that 30 Bananas guy as well as others. I don't want to be involved in any sort in any sort of online discussion involving the points of view of any of those people. I had read a number of studies, including the most recent article that I posted information about, that suggested that true isocaloric comparisons of diet types do reveal increased weight loss in low-carbohydrate diets. I'd be happy to try to find those citations, but that's about as far as I'd like to take it. I have no strong opinion either way and my only veseted interest is in my own health -- which has, coincidentally, improved dramatically while following Mark Sisson's suggestions. So, thanks again for the links, it was nice to see vigorous discussion on the topic, but not my style. If I find those citations again, I'll post them. Good night for real this time all!

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