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Thread: McDougall on diet and diabetes page

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    Moochy's Avatar
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    McDougall on diet and diabetes

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    I do not agree with him but, I think it is interesting to see where he is coming from. How can paleo/primal be in such conflict and both claim to be healthy? He has a lot of "converts" who claim they got healthy eating like this. He says a high sugar diet will cure insulin resistance and fat causes insulin resistance. Again, I do not agree with his pont of view and follow a Primal style myself.

    Primal/Paleo is not for everyone, it's for those who have committed to understand.
    READ THE BOOK! ...as Robb Wolf says: "Trying to convince people to save their own ass will burn you out."

    Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, and an affront to all I stand for -- the pure enjoyment of food.” Anthony Bourdain

    and yes, calories DO count my little piggies

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    My mother died from complications due to TypeII Diabetes. When I finally got sober from the shock, I started looking for information on diet for people afflicted with or people borderline, and I was appalled at all the conflicting information. I'm not just talking about John Doe, MD, but "reputable" medical institutions.

    The only things I've seen work in real life are to lose weight (and it doesn't really matter how, it's a matter of getting rid of 50 pounds as fast as possible) and to "move slowly" for long periods of time. Otherwise, the medical community is divided on low carb vs USDA diet and will just pump meds into the patient.

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    It's a testament to just how diverse an "optimal" diet can be and how many different interpretations one can make of it. I found it kind of weird he excludes all oils completely (not even a dab of olive oil on a salad) and limits fruit to 3 servings a day.
    Last edited by Forgotmylastusername; 07-20-2012 at 05:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moochy View Post
    I do not agree with him but, I think it is interesting to see where he is coming from. How can paleo/primal be in such conflict and both claim to be healthy? He has a lot of "converts" who claim they got healthy eating like this. He says a high sugar diet will cure insulin resistance and fat causes insulin resistance. Again, I do not agree with his pont of view and follow a Primal style myself.
    Other than on his website, I don't see a lot of people who have success with stuff like this in regards to diabetes. But there are people all over the internet where primal/paleo/low carb who have had the success he claims.

    Basically, if you look at the people in his success stories, they were really overweight-at least the one's I looked at. That's often the case with diabetics and to me it comes down to losing weight for a great many diabetics. Losing 75-100 pounds, along with eating a lot less as they do is going to improve blood sugar however you got there. But again, you don't see a lot of people having long term success with that out there following these type approaches. Plus it's all relative to your definition of success. One of his featured stories touts an average bs of 120-130. While improved obviously from where he was, that would be failure to me and a lot of other diabetics.

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    McDougall is a mirror image of paleo & atkins - very correct about some things, but blinded by binary tunnel-vision. Both groups just need to banish the notions that fat & cholesterol or starches & sugars are inherently bad for you to the dumpster of nutritional fuckheadery from whence they came.
    “The whole concept of a macronutrient, like that of a calorie, is determining our language game in such a way that the conversation is not making sense." - Dr. Kurt Harris

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    I am trying to eliminate Metabolic Syndrome myself. My thinking is for me, sugar/carbs are literally death and yet McDougall claims sugar is a cure for insulin resistance. Matt Stone also makes the same claim. I cannot wrap my head around this as when I eat a carbohydrate load my blood sugar rockets.
    Primal/Paleo is not for everyone, it's for those who have committed to understand.
    READ THE BOOK! ...as Robb Wolf says: "Trying to convince people to save their own ass will burn you out."

    Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, and an affront to all I stand for -- the pure enjoyment of food.” Anthony Bourdain

    and yes, calories DO count my little piggies

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moochy View Post
    How can paleo/primal be in such conflict and both claim to be healthy? He has a lot of "converts" who claim they got healthy eating like this. He says a high sugar diet will cure insulin resistance and fat causes insulin resistance.
    I think that that apparent conflict is because McDougall appears to have some misconceptions about paleo/primal. From the video i got the following equivalences:

    LowCarbHighFat (LCHF) = Atkins = Drivethrough hamburgers without the bun
    Eating fat= get fat = obesity = diabetes

    Now, I think that he is partly right, and partly wrong. He's right that obesity causes type 2 diabetes.

    However, I think that he's wrong about high fat diets. It's not how muc fat you eat,it's about how many total calories you consume (which incidentally, is why the low carb people who demonify carbs are also wrong). Where calories are controlled there is NO DIFFERENCE in weight gain between HFLC people and LFHC people. So he's wrong when he says that eating a fat based diet causes obesity and eating a starch based diet leads to weight loss. The truth is that people can lose weight via calorie reduction whether they are getting their calories from fat or from carbohydrates.

    However, in terms of suggesting eating vegetables and real foods, I think he's absolutely right. Which is what primal is all about, right?
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

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    I have type 2 diabetes and I've gone down from UK size 22 to 14 very nearly 12. If I eat carbs I bloat and if I eat too many I'm sick. Low carbing then doing low carb organic Primal has given me normal blood sugar and excellent health markers. I'd ask them how much sugar they eat lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Where calories are controlled there is NO DIFFERENCE in weight gain between HFLC people and LFHC people. So he's wrong when he says that eating a fat based diet causes obesity and eating a starch based diet leads to weight loss. The truth is that people can lose weight via calorie reduction whether they are getting their calories from fat or from carbohydrates.
    my personal experience contradicts this. it's NOT cico. after i hit my 40s, my weight started creeping up, up, up and no amount of conventional weight loss tactics could stop the climb. lower-fat, higher-fiber, calorie-deprivation, hours in the gym, even fasting for 48-72 hours -- nothing worked. i tracked my food and exercise religiously and neurotically. until i went low-carb. then the weight, and more importantly the bodyfat, started to drop. so no, it's NOT cico. years and years of a diet based on "healthy" grains and legumes had damaged my insulin response. it's NOT cico.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    – Ernest Hemingway

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