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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TorMag View Post
    Remember, when I say this, I am on your side. But no, bones in a firepit are not conclusive to anything other than "Hey there were some bones in this firepit." Could be that after gnawing on the raw meat bone Grok threw it in the fire to get rid of it, kind of like taking out the garbage. Just saying......
    Could be~ but I'm thinking he probably threw most of the bones to the dogs (wolves?)

  2. #42
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    We became human because of cooking, silly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brahnamin View Post
    I suspect this is why my old Dentine habit made me so un-civilized. I just didn't have time not to be a d!ck to everybody.

    (Or I was a 16 yr old boy).

    One of the two.
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    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nady View Post
    Could be~ but I'm thinking he probably threw most of the bones to the dogs (wolves?)
    Only if they kept dogs. Otherwise it becomes stupid in the extreme to toss bones out of the cave that will only attract local carnivores. Plus, bones burn and burn hot. Fair fuel (once you're done with the marrow and meat) if wood is scarce (or you can't get out and get more wood for weather or whathaveyou).

    Just saying.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by brahnamin View Post
    Only if they kept dogs. Otherwise it becomes stupid in the extreme to toss bones out of the cave that will only attract local carnivores. Plus, bones burn and burn hot. Fair fuel (once you're done with the marrow and meat) if wood is scarce (or you can't get out and get more wood for weather or whathaveyou).

    Just saying.
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by brahnamin View Post
    Only if they kept dogs. Otherwise it becomes stupid in the extreme to toss bones out of the cave that will only attract local carnivores. Plus, bones burn and burn hot. Fair fuel (once you're done with the marrow and meat) if wood is scarce (or you can't get out and get more wood for weather or whathaveyou).

    Just saying.
    Now that's funny! Exactly where do you think they got 'dogs'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    The first reasonably good evidence of cooking is in the form of burned bones and fire altered stones at the Chinese site of Zhoukoudian dating sometime between 780,000 and 400,000 years ago (ie Homo erectus).
    Early Human Evolution: Early Human Culture

    I'd say that there is definitely some "proof". It's the most accepted interpretation of the evidence in the anthropological community anyway. If you'd like to argue with that as a lay person, have at it.
    I'd say that any and almost all discussions in this board concerning "what grok/our ancestors did" is based on arguments put forward by lay persons, regardless if it is backed up by some anthropologist. Just because there was some bones in some old fire doesn't mean the fire was used for cooking. It could be that way, but it is not a proof.

    It is like saying that our ancestors were 3 meters tall due to the hight of the easter island statues. Could it be that way? Probably not, but we have the statues for proof.

    However, this is not the point. I'd say that OP is not so far of with his/hers point: the basic "diet" for humankind are plants (i.e. food you can gather). There are some local exceptions (massai in africa and samis in the northern scandinavia) but most cultures rely on plants/gather foods as a basis (grains not included).

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gods unborn son View Post
    I'd say that any and almost all discussions in this board concerning "what grok/our ancestors did" is based on arguments put forward by lay persons, regardless if it is backed up by some anthropologist. Just because there was some bones in some old fire doesn't mean the fire was used for cooking. It could be that way, but it is not a proof.

    It is like saying that our ancestors were 3 meters tall due to the hight of the easter island statues. Could it be that way? Probably not, but we have the statues for proof.

    However, this is not the point. I'd say that OP is not so far of with his/hers point: the basic "diet" for humankind are plants (i.e. food you can gather). There are some local exceptions (massai in africa and samis in the northern scandinavia) but most cultures rely on plants/gather foods as a basis (grains not included).
    Then how do you explain the need for an essential nutrient (B-12) that is not available in plant material? Wouldn't a species that relied on vegetation either not need the vitamin, or be able to synthesize it from other food components or gut flora?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nady View Post
    Now that's funny! Exactly where do you think they got 'dogs'?
    There are a lot of possibilities, but before dogs were actually domesticated it is unlikely anyone intentionally *tossed stuff* that might attract carnivores right outside their living area. Even if they wanted to begin enticing wild dogs/wolves to capture/raise it is not likely they would do so outside their own cave/hearth with all those women and children around. Not so safe.

    They might try it near the wolves' den - better chance of actually attracting wolves.

    Or they might simply have been aware of wolves shadowing them on a hunt and leaving unwanted bits of carcass behind for them. Despite popular myth, primitive people - especially on large hunts against large creatures - couldn't always use the whole kill. They selected the *best* parts (ie - fat/meat/offal/hide - whatever was most needed/useful at that time for them) and took as much as they could carry, leaving the rest behind.

    Perhaps over time the wolves learned to hunt *with* men in this fashion to get their share. Perhaps the men learned to lure wolves near with bones or meat and began the partnership that ended in a mutual system of hunting that resulted in hunters ultimately domesticating those packs - or more likely the next generation of those packs.

    It's certainly all speculation, but, erm, no, if there were no domesticated dogs handy, no hunter with any sense is tossing something that enticing to dangerous animals right outside the area where his women and children live. Seriously.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nady View Post
    Then how do you explain the need for an essential nutrient (B-12) that is not available in plant material? Wouldn't a species that relied on vegetation either not need the vitamin, or be able to synthesize it from other food components or gut flora?
    You can actually get B12 from bacteria in the dirt if you haven't been taught to wash your hands before every meal you prepare and to use antibacterial soap while doing so. Just eating with dirty hands (particularly if they've been in actual dirt like Grok's woulda been) can transfer a lot of B12 loaded microcritters down the gullet where they can thrive and survive. If your dirty tuber digging foraging hands prepared the food you can pass it on to everyone.

    Particularly if washing said food is optional.

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