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Thread: Primal Women - did cave girls really exercise as much as men? page 5

  1. #41
    JBailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Figlio di Moros View Post
    No doubt, I never claimed they didn't. Notice I said feminists encouraged women back into the workforce. During the 19th century, the rising Nouve Riche, followed by the emergent middle class, didn't need two-parent homes. Naturally, the women were the ones to stay at home. This trend then reversed in the 1960's and 70's, for no logical reason.
    Do some more reading guy. Feminism/ists didn't encourage women back into the workforce. Like other people have said, women have always worked. And it's the profit-driven corporate/capitalist economic system that tweaks wages/inflation to wring every bit of cheap labor out of people. After WW2 there was no deficit spending and black market budgets. Women had been 'drafted' into the work force to take the place of fighting men, and wanted to keep those jobs after because it was the first time they were in control of their own lives. Laws had to be changed to force women back home, into domestic servitude, freeing up jobs for men. But the post-war economy meant higher inflation thanks to the free-spending war era, and now it took 2 incomes to do what 1 used to. Women 'had' to work to maintain their household's stardard of living, so feminism was co-opted to encourage women into permanent full-time work. At 60-70% of male wages, with sexual harassment, and the full burden of child care and household duties.

    Real feminism involved equal pay, free choice in career fields, and shared domestic duties. We still don't have that. Women working outside the home has nothing to do with feminism, and everything to do with wage slavery and consumerism.

    As for men being useless, look at how many other social animals live. In many cases, females live cooperatively together with their offspring, sharing childcare and hunting duties. Males live in all-male groups, sparring and hunting, until it's time to show off to the females how fit & trim they are. The females choose their mate, and when 'sexy time' is over, go back to life with their female compadres, free of testosterone-crazed males. In herd critters, it's still the females that choose which male they will permit to accompany the herd. And it only takes one to service many females. Male humans seem to have gotten that mixed up to mean that one male 'owns' many females
    Seven Trees Farm - diversified subsistence farming on 1.25 acres.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBailey View Post
    As for men being useless, look at how many other social animals live. In many cases, females live cooperatively together with their offspring, sharing childcare and hunting duties. Males live in all-male groups, sparring and hunting, until it's time to show off to the females how fit & trim they are. The females choose their mate, and when 'sexy time' is over, go back to life with their female compadres, free of testosterone-crazed males. In herd critters, it's still the females that choose which male they will permit to accompany the herd. And it only takes one to service many females. Male humans seem to have gotten that mixed up to mean that one male 'owns' many females
    This doesn't speak to anything, but as I was reading this paragraph, couldn't shake the memory of all those Lynda Carter -Wonder Woman episodes - especially those that had to do with Paradise Island itself. I always did wonder how they procreated.

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=canio6;901014

    Yes, I think many of them are there by choice or more accurately by the choices they have made. I've been married a combined total of 12 years and my wife (of which there were two...not at the same time) has worked a total of one of those years. We have had a place to live, a car to drive (not a great one but it runs), food to eat, etc. We do not have two cars, a 3 car garage, vacations to the Caribbean or kids in private school, but those are all choices. I've also made some shitty financial decisions so will probably be saying "Welcome to Walmart" one day. Such is life. Sure my wife could work (outside of the home) and one day will but it is hardly necessary. Much depends on the lifestyle one has chosen. There are many one income families out there. It is just not as easy or as common as it once was. As for feminists, well, what can I blame them for? :P

    btw...bring back the raccoon mask!

    [/QUOTE]

    I choose not to go to work. If it were possible my husband would choose not to work either! We value are own time immensely. We'd rather have time than money, but there is a minimum one needs to survive. We have found ways to live frugally.

    Glad you like the mask..... I may bring it back or I may surprise you with one of my many other animal masks. I don't consider my mask making "work" even though I do get money for them.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Figlio di Moros View Post
    If you think a housewife is "sitting at home all day", you have no idea what their lives are like. Yes, some housewives will just sit and watch TV(in fact, too many, without doing the laundry, cooking, or cleaning, even), but they actually have a lot of time open for any number of activities. At the very least, housewives have the full day to visit family and friends, and can do almost anything from gardening to charity work. Not to mention, spending time with your kids is far more fullfilling than being chained to a desk.

    I should point out the number of women choosing to stay home, and who really want to, is on the rise. This probably has something to do with the fact work sucks, there's only a handful of decent, fulfilling jobs to begin with, and being a homemaker is far more satisfying across the board.

    It's funny, the idealic "career woman" was Barbara Walters, now Mika Brzezinski, and yet the reality tends to end up being working in a call center, or waitressing. Not the best paying or most fulfilling jobs, unless you're waitressing at the resturant you own, and then you're probably spending more time with your kids, anyways.
    Hey... guess what... I'm a mother.
    I've both worked outside the home and stayed in the home.
    I have some real experience about what happen there.
    House hold chores are mostly mind numbing. Seriously. That's why the least educated people in our culture are paid to do those tasks.
    Spending time with kids only at the exclusion of adult company, as many women experience much of their time at home can also be a bit mind numbing. This is particularly true if they decide to be stay home moms and lack a rich husband so that they can run about at their whims to play dates and not ever think of costs.
    There is something to be said for having actual intelligent adult conversation. This doesn't happen with a 3 year old.

    Whether or not being a homemaker is fulfilling, either as fulfilling as or more fulfilling than, a professional job is up to the individual to decide. Not for a third party to decide via sweeping generalizations.
    A woman's choices about career are her own. If she finds a 'menial' job in a book store or waitressing to be enjoyable that is HER decision. If she decided to go to college and get a doctorate and work in a laboratory or hospital, that is also up to her. Those are HER decisions.

    One of my grandmothers was a teacher. She taught and managed her own home and 4 children. She taught while they were young and continued to be active in teaching into her 80's as a volunteer.
    She was a MUCH happier person than my other grandmother who also raised 4 children strictly as a homemaker. Once her boys grew up she kept a nice house, but it was easy to tell that she was dissatisfied. In her "well to do" family the entire reason for her to go to college was to find a husband to provide for her. She was bored to put it mildly. She puttered... and wasted away.

    Every woman should make her own choices.
    And realize that raising children is actually a small portion of their lives.
    Been there done that.

    I do not currently work due to disability.
    But I would if I could.
    And I was actively furthering my education and seeking employment, despite the fact that I do not NEED to work outside the home, a year ago when I was stricken by my current problem.
    Last edited by cori93437; 07-14-2012 at 09:29 PM.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  5. #45
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    I think that most women are returning home because they find value in it.

    I gave it a good try. I thought that I would find being a SAHM and unschooling my kid to be super fulfilling. I didn't. I found it to be tedious and then exhausting. Tedious because there wasn't enough to do (living simply/minimally means less to clean and pick up, and I'm not crafty or interested in home improvements or gardening or keeping chickens), and then exhausting because DS's social needs are very high, and going to all of those things and socializing with those other families (women, men, children) was exhausting (i'm an introvert).

    Which means what? It meant that I would be bored out of my mind while at home, then conversely absolutely freaked out when I wasn't. And usually, the other moms were talking about their cooking/cleaning/crafting/chicken-keeping, and I was just like . . . "i'm so not into these things." Not that I don't think those things are *super-awesome* but it's not my deal. Other moms are mom-activists. . . doing a lot of things like really getting involved in mother/baby stuff (baby wearing advocacy groups, breastfeeding advocacy groups; natural parenting/free ranging advocacy groups; educational advocacy groups; groups that help moms join advocacy groups). All of that stuff is also *super* valuable, but honestly, not to my interest. I mean, I am glad that I did the things that I did as a mom, and that I had those groups to go to and get help, support, and answers when I needed. But once my boy was out of diapers, I saw no reason to head to the "potty babies" group, or once he was weaned, going to the breast feeding group. Yes, I remember how to do it and can help people do it and whatever, BUT it's definitely not a *passion* of mine, you know?

    So, I went back to my passion: I went back to work.

    Once I started teaching yoga again, I was excited to get up in the morning. Yes, I still kept house, took care of baby, didn't keep chickens or do crafting, and I seriously cut-back on the amount of socializing I did so that I wouldn't overwhelm myself. And, I started working. I love it.

    And then I started this bigger business, which I love doing in the extreme. I love cultivating it. I love doing the accounting. I love cleaning the carpets. I love teaching my teachers for free (as part of our professional development to better the studio). I love every aspect of the work.

    I still clean the house and take care of my kid (though, as I said, my husband does the majority of this labor right now).

    i don't feel at all forced. I don't feel like I'm doing it because it's the feminist thing to do or not to do. I do it because I enjoy it, and doing so helps me be a happier, more authentic person, which in turn, teaches my son to be a happier, more authentic person.

  6. #46
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    Also, I have "worked out like a guy" since I don't really see any need to work out differently just because I'm a girl. Just to tie it back to the OP.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Forager View Post
    I choose not to go to work. If it were possible my husband would choose not to work either! We value are own time immensely. We'd rather have time than money, but there is a minimum one needs to survive. We have found ways to live frugally.

    Glad you like the mask..... I may bring it back or I may surprise you with one of my many other animal masks. I don't consider my mask making "work" even though I do get money for them.
    Hell, I get that. I wouldn't work either if I did not have to. Well, I probably would but not at the same place for 20+ years. I'd do whatever until it was no longer fun then move on. Yes, the mask is great. More masks? Hells yeah.
    somehow I manage to leave my intelligence and decorum at the door wherever I go. I doubt your journal will be an exception to that - not on the rug

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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Figlio di Moros View Post
    If you think a housewife is "sitting at home all day", you have no idea what their lives are like. Yes, some housewives will just sit and watch TV(in fact, too many, without doing the laundry, cooking, or cleaning, even), but they actually have a lot of time open for any number of activities. At the very least, housewives have the full day to visit family and friends, and can do almost anything from gardening to charity work. Not to mention, spending time with your kids is far more fullfilling than being chained to a desk.

    I should point out the number of women choosing to stay home, and who really want to, is on the rise. This probably has something to do with the fact work sucks, there's only a handful of decent, fulfilling jobs to begin with, and being a homemaker is far more satisfying across the board.

    It's funny, the idealic "career woman" was Barbara Walters, now Mika Brzezinski, and yet the reality tends to end up being working in a call center, or waitressing. Not the best paying or most fulfilling jobs, unless you're waitressing at the resturant you own, and then you're probably spending more time with your kids, anyways.
    Geez - you have clearly never stayed home to look after children full time - I bet if you did you wouldn't be posting this garbage.

    Looking after kids is mind numbingly monotonous - How can you seriously have time for "charity work" and "visiting with friends", when you have children to get back for afternoon sleeps etc? This is why I couldn't wait to go back to work. I couldn't stand the constant boring housework, boring conversations with other mums at coffee group meetings, and kids fighting. I used to call 5 oclock hell hour - and couldn't wait for the other half to come home to ditch the kids on him so I could get half an hour to myself.

    Your piss-poor, unrealistic description of staying home and looking after kids makes me angry - Your attitude makes women feel guilty because they don't want to be at home full time. Not me - I realise what I'm good at - and its not staying at home.

    Why don't you stay home at look after the kids full time and then you can come back and tell us how fun it is? Huh? LOL

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Figlio di Moros View Post
    I was describing a specific coworker, not women in general. I'm not accusing all women of being worthless, slutty cunts, just saying there's more of them out there than I care to deal with. Though, it's worth pointing out I'm a misogynist for saying something about a specific woman, who complains about men, yet there was a woman on the previous page who literally said "Men are only useful for their penis, and most of them aren't even good at that", and you ignored it. A bit hypocritical, really.
    ah, ok. so just one cunt? so not a universal dismissal of women as cunts as inferred by the use of the plural just a few comments earlier?

    The difference is, I've got to listen to women bitch all day about how much men suck, that we're all a bunch of assholes and treat them like shit.
    there are people, men AND women, at my work who talk all sorts of worthless shit. i simply engage with them as little as possible. makes my life more peaceful and makes me much less likely to go off on hateful sexist rants on the nets. ymmv.

    have a nice day.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    – Ernest Hemingway

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Figlio di Moros View Post
    No doubt, I never claimed they didn't. Notice I said feminists encouraged women back into the workforce. During the 19th century, the rising Nouve Riche, followed by the emergent middle class, didn't need two-parent homes. Naturally, the women were the ones to stay at home. This trend then reversed in the 1960's and 70's, for no logical reason.
    Yes, and since women have no thoughts, desires, or ideas of our own, then we just follow what others 'encourage' us to do.

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