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Thread: What's the deal with Raw Food SOS and Denise Minger and Primal? page 3

  1. #21
    Owly's Avatar
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    I don't know how so many people got this idea that primal meant a high-meat diet. A lot of us aren't LCHF, and many people around here eat meat/fish once a day, sometimes less frequently.

    I'm also guessing that by "biggest proportion" she is likely talking in terms of volume. She's also pretty clear that this is how she eats and what works for her, not a prescription for everyone.
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  2. #22
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    See, when I saw the thread title I naturally translated it as "What's the deal with Denise Minger not posting enough?"
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    I don't know how so many people got this idea that primal meant a high-meat diet. A lot of us aren't LCHF, and many people around here eat meat/fish once a day, sometimes less frequently.

    I'm also guessing that by "biggest proportion" she is likely talking in terms of volume. She's also pretty clear that this is how she eats and what works for her, not a prescription for everyone.
    This. I eat more seafood than meat and never eat bacon (or any pork if I'm cooking) . And my Primal Card is still valid. Seared ahi on a salad is for dinner tonight. The greatest part of the calories are the ahi but the greatest volume is the green stuff. And some berries for dessert.

  4. #24
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    Looking at my own past history, I could see needing a lot more carbs when you're younger. It was definitely that way with me.

    And you can easily get a ton or iron from shellfish and some vegetables.

    I think it would be much harder to understand if she didn't eat those or eggs. When you completely avoid animal flesh and animal products, then it's tougher to get the nutrients.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    I don't know how so many people got this idea that primal meant a high-meat diet. A lot of us aren't LCHF, and many people around here eat meat/fish once a day, sometimes less frequently.

    I'm also guessing that by "biggest proportion" she is likely talking in terms of volume. She's also pretty clear that this is how she eats and what works for her, not a prescription for everyone.
    Exactly.
    Not every one eats meat 3 times a day, or a huge portion of meat when they do eat it.
    I don't eat bacon (or sausage/any processed meats) at all which seems like sacrilege around here sometimes.
    I eat fish and other sea food pretty regularly in the place of meat, and offal such as liver in the place of muscle meat as well.
    I even have 'meatless' days... which would be today... I consider egg only as meatless as most vegetarians (common lacto-ovo) do.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


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    Sorry, the bacon comment was...

    :sarchasm:

  7. #27
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    Hehe... I missed your bacon quip Finny.
    Yes, sarchasm indeed.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  8. #28
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    True. I eat meat about once a day, and sometimes less. The greatest volume of my food is probably veggies then eggs, then meat, and then fruit. Depends though. I have all-fruit days sometimes.

    I eat bacon about once a week, if that, and we make sausage with our friends, so it's not really a 'processed' meat so much as ground meat plus spices plus casing (which is animal casing, not vegetarian casing). I like sausage a lot -- flavor wise -- so we eat it.

    I think my favorite food of all is avocados, followed swiftly after by oranges. I try to eat 1/2 avocado per day because of their excessive yumminess.

  9. #29
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    I could see why GoldenSparrow asked though - I too wondered about her diet when I read it, but never really gave it much thought past that.

    You know how you can know better, but not do better? just like she states that she has "no reason" to believe that eating raw is better than lightly cooked, she simply enjoys eating raw more - likewise, she may simply enjoy eating more in the way of fruits and what not, despite her knowledge?

    --- friendly edit, this is the point where you can stop reading as I go somewhat off-topic below, however if you care to know what I've been up to, read on ---

    I haven't posted here in quite a while, and I only read the forums maybe once a week, but my diet is all over the place - I always strive for primal, but some days I don't eat much meat, other times I ONLY eat meat, some days I eat some mild junk, nothing too bad but I don't really try to hit any arbitrary numbers or anything like that. I wanted to dabble in carb re-feeds, etc just to experiment, but I found that eating "mathematically" just isn't for me at least not right now. I am much happier just going with the flow, which means some days are high carb (fruits, home-made lemonade, potatoes with my main meals, etc) and others zero carb (meats, eggs, etc) or somewhere in between.

    I also heard on Real Food Summit when Sarah Pope presented that if you consume bone broths your body's need for meat decreases. If you are not somebody that "needs" to eat muscle-protein (ie: you don't care to eat 1g of protein per lb) then you get plenty from the bone broths and can skip the meat if your body isn't asking for it. She mentions drinking bone broth often, so that could also cover her nutritionally. Personally, I'm a big fan of eating meat, but have also included bone broths, however, not often enough to see if they make me want to have less meat. Also, since I'm an active person and have recently upped my exercise - I train about 2 hours almost every day (my hand-balancing and other bodyweight training has honestly taken over other activities, that's why I'm not here as much)* I do want to actually eat more protein and carbs, and could not eat like Denise does.

    I do think she may be eating too much in the way of fruits, but her diet is pretty lose and let's also keep in mind that that post is from 2012 - I didn't read closely enough to see if she was still eating that way now, and I didn't read the comments, so it's also possible she's changed her diet some. Again though, she may NOT be after totally extreme "perfect" health, and just eating how she likes, avoiding the bad stuff, you know?

    * = on training so much, you could say that too is anti-primal, right? After all, Mark and other paleo bloggers advocate short but intense strength training sessions 2-3 times a week, and sprinting once a week or so right? I did that for about 2 years - with good results. However, as I separated myself from the forums (this place got way too stupid/intense/spammy for me.. uh, yes offense, but no offense to the older crowd) and started looking to REALLY make progress in some of the training elements I so wanted to achieve (most importantly: hand balancing, followed closely by overall strength training using gymnastic elements) I decided to see how the people that are successful are doing things. One of my main inspirations is Ido Portal (google him) he's been eating paleo for 15 uninterrupted years. His diet is essentially VLC with some carb-refeeds. However, he trains A LOT and eats accordingly (and often).

    I had a few private training sessions with one of Ido's pupils, and he showed me a couple of things specific to the handstand that have made a world of difference - I can now hold it for about 8-10 seconds but consistently. It's not pretty, but it's an actual handstand! it eluded me for so long. I honestly think this progress wouldn't be possible if I was only "working out" 2/3 times a week. The difference is, I'm now training, NOT just working out. My aim is to learn a skill, NOT just to be strong or fit. There is a big difference. Which brings me to my actual point, sorry for dragging you all through this: Not everyone is after the idea of perfection that the paleo/primal diets say they will bring, some people are willing to flirt with the extremes (and I'm not calling myself extreme, at all) even though they know it may be counter-productive in the end.

    I take steps to relax just as hard as I'm working though. I listen to my body. I supplement with magnesium, good cod liver oil, good fish oil, vitamin D, etc and I try to get as much nutrients from food as I can. I have learned about pre and re-hab and apply them, and generally pay more attention to my body than I used to, but in a healthy way. It's actually only been a few weeks of this increased training (I worked with Ido's pupil the third week of June, prior to that my "training" was random, short and inconsistent) and that week was HELL on my body - some next level soreness my friends! but I kept up the volume and now after not even a month, I just don't feel as sore. I am conditioned and able to train more often. I feel I am doing all of this safely, but if it comes back to bite me in the ass later (honestly doubt it) at least I'll be able to say that I enjoyed the process of becoming a hand balancer and all the years I was able to do it. To me, it would be worth it.

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  10. #30
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    The only reason I eat massive amounts of muscle protein is because of its high thermic effect and satiety factor, it's the only way I can seem to keep my appetite at bay and lose weight. Someone as petite as Denise wouldn't need to eat nearly as much.

    Plus, with all that soluble fiber and the ensuing storm of butyrate, she probably has a lot more fat in her system than you'd think.
    “The whole concept of a macronutrient, like that of a calorie, is determining our language game in such a way that the conversation is not making sense." - Dr. Kurt Harris

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