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Thread: Fibrous carbohydrates = bad?!

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  1. #1
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    Fibrous carbohydrates = bad?!

    Hey everyone,

    Since transitioning back to meat eating, I'm having a little bit of trouble with... umm... You know...! My bowel movements are not really happening. I was doing some research into GAPS (for an unrelated issue) and discovered that they don't advocate fibre as it:

    "feeds microbes. The human digestive system is not designed to break down fiber. Instead, it ends up undigested in your bowel, where the majority of your gut flora resides. If your gut flora is healthy, ie dominated by beneficial, probiotic species, then these microbes will feed on the fiber and proliferate."


    Meanwhile, over at the Danny Roddy thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by dannyroddy View Post
    Fibrous carbohydrates can cause complications with bacterial endotoxin and increase adaptive stress hormones.l
    What are your views?

  2. #2
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    Define fibrous carbs? Are we talking whole grains or leafy greens? I'm firmly convinced we can eat as many leaves as we want, if there is one food that would have been available to most humans most of the time it's leaves, there is pretty much always some kind of leaf in season.

    Trouble with not going is often down to lack of fat, how are you on this front?
    You know all those pictures of Adam and Eve where they have belly button? Think about it..................... take as long as you need........................

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tribal Rob View Post
    Define fibrous carbs? Are we talking whole grains or leafy greens? I'm firmly convinced we can eat as many leaves as we want, if there is one food that would have been available to most humans most of the time it's leaves, there is pretty much always some kind of leaf in season.

    Trouble with not going is often down to lack of fat, how are you on this front?
    Maybe you can eat all the leaves you want, but I can't. It pains me to admit that vegetables really aren't as great as they're cracked up to being, because I'd been a big vegetable/salad believer, but I feel so much better without all that roughage clogging up the system. It had nothing to do with fat, I even did 2 weeks of very high fat/protein and almost zero carb during an elimination diet - couldn't figure out why my constipation and pain was worse until I realized I was eating multiple avocadoes a day, and those fiber bombs have 10+ grams of fiber each.

    Cows can eat all the leaves they want with their multiple stomaches and protruding bellies...I'll leave the leaves to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    Maybe you can eat all the leaves you want, but I can't. It pains me to admit that vegetables really aren't as great as they're cracked up to being, because I'd been a big vegetable/salad believer, but I feel so much better without all that roughage clogging up the system. It had nothing to do with fat, I even did 2 weeks of very high fat/protein and almost zero carb during an elimination diet - couldn't figure out why my constipation and pain was worse until I realized I was eating multiple avocadoes a day, and those fiber bombs have 10+ grams of fiber each.
    If you tell me avocados aren't good to eat I will definitely cry.

    Where do you stand on herbs btw? I eat lots of parsley cos' it has such a high vitamin C content... (plus I like it)... is this screwing me up even more??

    This exploration into food is something else... you make one change, then something else needs tweaking! Things were so much more simple when I was out drinking, taking drugs and eating cereal three times a day

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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    If you tell me avocados aren't good to eat I will definitely cry.

    Where do you stand on herbs btw? I eat lots of parsley cos' it has such a high vitamin C content... (plus I like it)... is this screwing me up even more??

    This exploration into food is something else... you make one change, then something else needs tweaking! Things were so much more simple when I was out drinking, taking drugs and eating cereal three times a day
    The thing is, no specific vegetable is bad for you; avocadoes have lots of great nutrients in them, plus they taste great as guacamole. I still eat avocado, but I'm careful to have a much smaller amount - maybe 1/4 (or even 1/2 on occasion) at a time. My digestive system, like many other people's, is very sensitive to fiber. I can have a few dates for example, or a serving of kale for example with no problem. But when I'm having multiple servings of highly fibrous veggies, that's when the real punishment happens.

    I think herbs are great - from what I've read of their nutritional profiles, they seem like way more bang for the buck. I think the key is moderation. Obviously other people can handle some more fiber than I can, others less. If you love eating a barrel of parsley AND you have no trouble digesting it, I say keep right on. For me, I prefer to put all those great veggies like kale and cilantro in the juicer, so I can consume all the precious nutrients in a very digestible form and discard the indigestible roughage

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    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    The thing is, no specific vegetable is bad for you; avocadoes have lots of great nutrients in them, plus they taste great as guacamole. I still eat avocado, but I'm careful to have a much smaller amount - maybe 1/4 (or even 1/2 on occasion) at a time. My digestive system, like many other people's, is very sensitive to fiber. I can have a few dates for example, or a serving of kale for example with no problem. But when I'm having multiple servings of highly fibrous veggies, that's when the real punishment happens.

    I think herbs are great - from what I've read of their nutritional profiles, they seem like way more bang for the buck. I think the key is moderation. Obviously other people can handle some more fiber than I can, others less. If you love eating a barrel of parsley AND you have no trouble digesting it, I say keep right on. For me, I prefer to put all those great veggies like kale and cilantro in the juicer, so I can consume all the precious nutrients in a very digestible form and discard the indigestible roughage
    When you say you have to be moderate with the fiber - do you mean you can't go, or you go too much?

    My system was fine til I started eating meat again... The thought of it sitting there rotting in my intestines reminds me why I was veggie for so long!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post

    Things were so much more simple when I was out drinking, taking drugs and eating cereal three times a day
    Really, really laughing out loud.

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    Sorry, by "fibrous carbs" I mean veggies. I think I'm doing okay on the fat front... cooking liberally with saturated fat, and even spreading Ludpak butter on my food once it's cooked! I read that 'not going' can be caused by an inability to break down the fats due to a lack of acid in your stomach?

    GAPS says that all leafy veggies are fibrous and therefore bad for your gut... And some people think that leafy greens are crap energy food.

    My head hurts from all the conflicting info.. :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    GAPS says that all leafy veggies are fibrous and therefore bad for your gut... And some people think that leafy greens are crap energy food.
    GAPS is specifically for healing a compromised gut, and there are stages at which you add these things back in. In other words if your gut is healthy and you have no distress to eating these foods they should be perfectly fine. And I actually agree that they are crap food for "energy and nutrition". They work well as a delivery system for other yummies though. Eliminating them will not compromise your health, but I also don't see it as something that will make you "extra" healthy either. My thoughts on veggies in general are that they are a wash health wise if you are eating things like liver, heart, and broth.

    Oh, except fermented veggies. I actually believe these types to be quite beneficial. Far more so than just cooking them down.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 07-07-2012 at 08:32 AM.

  10. #10
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    I've have 6+ years of experience with constipation and abdominal pain/bloating..went to gastroenterolosists, took just about every OTC laxative and old wives remedy (prunes, etc...) and increased my already reasonably high level of fiber, none of which helped, and fiber in particular made me consistently WORSE.

    It wasn't until I discovered the gutsense website and started reading about how damaging fiber is that I understood what was going on with my digestive system. I highly recommend reading FIBER MENACE if you are serious about improving your long term digestive health.

    I was hooked on the CW nonsense that fiber was healthy, until I realized that it made no sense - by definition, fiber is INDIGESTIBLE to the human system. We do not have the enzyme, cellulase, which breaks this down. As a result, fiber must be fermented in our guts, which can lead to gas, bloating, inflammation...

    In a nutshell, the best things you can do are:

    1) Reduce fiber (ESPECIALLY INsoluable fiber). The Fiber Menace recommendation is a max of 10-15g/daily, unless you have a serious acute problem, in which case you'd want it as close to zero as possible.

    2) Take a good quality probiotic, eat plenty of fermented/cultured foods like yogurt, kim chee, etc...

    3) Make sure you are eating enough good quality animal fat.

    4) You may want to supplement with L-Glutamine, if you suspect you have leaky gut/digestive inflammation issues.

    ***Remember, this isn't a quick fix, and it will likely take weeks or months to heal, depending on how much damage you've got. Don't give up if your BM aren't perfect within a few days!

    5) Hydro-C. This is a gentle form of Vitamin C - I ordered it from the gutsense website. It stimulates BM, but with none of the bad effects from laxatives like gas and bloating, and it is not addictive at all. It was the first thing I tried that actually consistently works - it has been a godsend suring the process of healing my IBS.

    I've been doing all of the above and I've actually made dramatic improvement in healing my chronic constipation/IBS, which I never could have done without the info from gutsense.

    Anyone who claims you need fiber is completely misinformed.

    Your problems may not be as severe as mine, but damage from excessive fiber takes years to accumulate, and it's better to fix the situation before it gets past the point of no return. Fiber Menace does a beautiful job of explaining why people experience constipation when switching to low-carb diets, and why increasing fiber 'seems' to fix the problem, at least short term.

    The links below have lots of great information:
    Gut Sense: How to reverse and prevent constipation in children and adults

    EFFECT
    Last edited by BestBetter; 07-07-2012 at 10:53 AM.

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