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Thread: Fibrous carbohydrates = bad?! page 5

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimhensen View Post
    My views are the science doesn't support it. Fibrous carbs (veggies especially) have been shown to be extremely heart healthy. Honestly if anyone suggests that you should limit your fibrous veggie intake you should completely disregard everything else they say when it comes to nutrition...and probably anything else that comes out of their stupid mouths.

    I agree with you. The short time that I've been on these forums, I've noticed some folks seem to be showing up and being seriously worried about something some unsubstantiated, nutball blogger somewhere reportedly said about something related to nutrition. (e.g., "Someone said kale is poison. IS IT TRUE???? Please answer quickly because I'm getting ready to make a salad!") It's kind of a waste of time to believe all the organic male bovine fertilizer you hear on the Internet.

    There are some acknowledged and reliable authorities on nutritional issues that are worth reading and even they don't agree with each other 100% about every single issue. Some of those authorities are Mark Sisson, the Drs Michael and Mary Dan Eades, Dr. Mercola (a lot of good info though his obsessive personality is a little difficult to take and I never recommend him as the entry point to anyone), Dr. Stephen Phinney and Jeff Volek and some others. I fear some people who come to these forums are not very critical thinkers and are just looking for a consensus of opinion in order to decide what is "right." Or maybe it's just a social outing that's fun for them.

    But for understanding nutrition, it's a better use of one's time to read books by most of these folks rather than obsessing about the latest wild claim by someone rapping on their blog about all the secret (completely unsubstantiated) information that only they have access to. Capiche?

    I've virtually never had any experience with constipation, but one thing that might being having a beneficial effect on me is my somewhat regular use of chlorella. I have no articles to cite regarding chlorella and bowel movements however.
    Last edited by Primal in Korea; 07-08-2012 at 02:22 AM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post

    GAPS says . . .
    Excuse me, but what is "GAPS?"

  3. #43
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    Again, this post made me laugh..!

    You shouldn't take what you read here so seriously, or presume to judge somebody's ability to think critically on the basis of their casual web speak. This forum is a place to toss new ideas around, hear what other people have come up with, and then formulate your own opinions with research.

    Proclaiming we should all read books by a special panel of "experts" (aka 'gurus') instead of being inquisitive and exploring things that conflict with what they say is tantamount to religion.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal in Korea View Post
    Excuse me, but what is "GAPS?"
    That is even worse - you made judgements without even researching what we were talking about??! A bit hypocritical don't you think?

    http://www.gapsdiet.com/GAPS_Outline.html

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    That is even worse - you made judgements without even researching what we were talking about??! A bit hypocritical don't you think?

    GAPS Outline
    Well, no, I don't think it was hypocritical since I never made any comments regarding GAPS. My comments were general not directed toward a web site or blog that I've never visited. However, my apologies if I communicated unclearly and caused some confusion. And good luck with solving the problem that motivated your initiating this thread.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    When you say you have to be moderate with the fiber - do you mean you can't go, or you go too much?

    My system was fine til I started eating meat again... The thought of it sitting there rotting in my intestines reminds me why I was veggie for so long!!
    I've always had constipation as my main issue. The first time it hit me was during a 4 month road trip; I literally just stopped having BM for most of the trip, and even in the months after returning they were nonexistent. I started getting really paranoid about the stuff 'rotting' in my guts, since I didn't have a good understanding of digestion at that point, so I stopped eating meat and started eating only salads, and tons of vegetables, thinking that if food was going to be lodged inside, maybe it was better that it wasn't meat...in retospect, I can now see that doing this probably extended the problem much longer than it would have lasted, had I cut out the vegetables and instead only ate meat. I eventually fixed that bout with accupuncture and a big dose of probiotics.

    Since that experience, which was in 2005, I've had intermittent constipation where I can literally go 2-3 months without a single BM. My husband was amazed when he witnessed this; he just couldn't believe it was physically possible for a person to go that long without a BM and not explode...when I think back to how much unecessary suffering I inflicted on myself by clogging up my system with all that indigestible vegetable fiber, it really makes me wish i could go back in time and tell myself what I know now.
    Last edited by BestBetter; 07-08-2012 at 03:36 AM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal in Korea View Post

    There are some acknowledged and reliable authorities on nutritional issues that are worth reading and even they don't agree with each other 100% about every single issue. Some of those authorities are Mark Sisson, the Drs Michael and Mary Dan Eades, Dr. Mercola (a lot of good info though his obsessive personality is a little difficult to take and I never recommend him as the entry point to anyone), Dr. Stephen Phinney and Jeff Volek and some others. I fear some people who come to these forums are not very critical thinkers and are just looking for a consensus of opinion in order to decide what is "right." Or maybe it's just a social outing that's fun for them.

    But for understanding nutrition, it's a better use of one's time to read books by most of these folks rather than obsessing about the latest wild claim by someone rapping on their blog about all the secret (completely unsubstantiated) information that only they have access to. Capiche?

    I've virtually never had any experience with constipation, but one thing that might being having a beneficial effect on me is my somewhat regular use of chlorella. I have no articles to cite regarding chlorella and bowel movements however.
    The problem with relying on the nutritional authorities is that they don't always know what they're talking about and it can takes years of personal experimentation to find what actually works for each person. I read all sorts of these books you're mentioning and I 100% believe that paleo/primal is the way to eat. However, paleo is all about eating insoluable fiber; the 'healthier' my diet got, the worse my constipation got...I was banging my head on the wall because I was doing everything 'right' with my gigantic salads and my million servings of vegetables a day, and somehow my body just wasn't happy.

    The fact that you've never had constipation should be a clue that this isn't an appropriate thread for you to post in...and yes, I've used both chlorella and spirullina, and they have never improved my constipation.
    Last edited by BestBetter; 07-08-2012 at 03:46 AM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    I've always had constipation as my main issue. The first time it hit me was during a 4 month road trip; I literally just stopped having BM for most of the trip, and even in the months after returning they were nonexistent. I started getting really paranoid about the stuff 'rotting' in my guts, since I didn't have a good understanding of digestion at that point, so I stopped eating meat and started eating only salads, and tons of vegetables, thinking that if food was going to be lodged inside, maybe it was better that it wasn't meat...in retospect, I can now see that doing this probably extended the problem much longer than it would have lasted, had I cut out the vegetables and instead only ate meat. I eventually fixed that bout with accupuncture and a big dose of probiotics.

    Since that experience, which was in 2005, I've had intermittent constipation where I can literally go 2-3 months without a single BM. My husband was amazed when he witnessed this; he just couldn't believe it was physically possible for a person to go that long without a BM and not explode...when I think back to how much unecessary suffering I inflicted on myself by clogging up my system with all that indigestible vegetable fiber, it really makes me wish i could go back in time and tell myself what I know now.
    Ouch.... sounds awful. Hope you've got it under control now! The more I'm researching it, I definitely think there is something in this fiber thing. I read somewhere that the reason a lot of people have difficulties with BM when they cut their carbs is because they always had BM difficulties, but all the fiber was giving them an artificial helping hand.

    I find it amazing how the more deeply you get into non-CW health there is more to challenge what you think you know!

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal in Korea View Post
    my apologies if I communicated unclearly and caused some confusion. And good luck with solving the problem that motivated your initiating this thread.
    No worries - and thank you

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Sorry, by "fibrous carbs" I mean veggies. I think I'm doing okay on the fat front... cooking liberally with saturated fat, and even spreading Ludpak butter on my food once it's cooked! I read that 'not going' can be caused by an inability to break down the fats due to a lack of acid in your stomach?

    GAPS says that all leafy veggies are fibrous and therefore bad for your gut... And some people think that leafy greens are crap energy food.

    My head hurts from all the conflicting info.. :P
    My anecdotal experience is that replacing fibrous/non-starchy veggies that I usually had at breakfast with a small banana went a long way towards evening out my digestion. I'm sure there are other foods that would have the same effect - but my general experience is that a diet heavy in fibrous, non-starchy veggies can have the effect you described - but there are some pretty minor, easy things that can help improve the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimhensen
    My views are the science doesn't support it. Fibrous carbs (veggies especially) have been shown to be extremely heart healthy. Honestly if anyone suggests that you should limit your fibrous veggie intake you should completely disregard everything else they say when it comes to nutrition...and probably anything else that comes out of their stupid mouths.
    There's basically 2 mechanisms for veggies being healthy:

    1. Micronutrients. I think we can all agree on this and it's pretty self-explainatory.
    2. One of the new learnings regarding fiber this is getting more and more attention, is that the health benefit doesn't necessarily come directly from being more "regular", but rather that certain types of fiber have a prebiotic effect, and are fermented by the gut flora into butyric acid and similar short-chain fats, which are then absorbed/used by the body. The amount of evidence that butyric acid has anti-carcinogenic properties as well as other positive metabolic benefits is building.

    I believe that point #2 is really the reason for a lot of the "healthy whole grain" stuff you see promoted - it's not the grains themselves, but this fermentation of fiber in the gut that has benefits. Of course, there are ways of getting this benefit without chowing down on whole wheat bread with every meal.

    To which point, the question becomes, how does one achieve comfortable digestion while achieving both of the above benefits? I don't think omitting veggies entirely is a good idea, but tweaking up your intake - eating certain kinds of veggies instead of others, or having a banana with breakfast instead of broccoli are practical effective ways to solve this problem.
    Last edited by jsa23; 07-08-2012 at 05:23 AM.

  10. #50
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    Guys...not to be a pain here...but I don't think the PB advocates NOT eating your veggies. Many are acceptable.

    Admittedly, I don't have any digestive issues to deal with.

    In short, I eat plenty of them, still lose weight, and have no missed visits from "Mr. Hanky." :-)

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