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Thread: What! There's No Such Thing As Gluten-free Grains? page 2

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Thanks for posting this. I only indulge in rice when it is serving the function of sticking my sushi together. Maybe once a month.
    ^^^This. No point in eating rice without raw fish and seaweed, IMHO.

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    There are anti-nutrients in everything we eat. There is gliadin and gluteninin in wheat. There is avenin in oats. There is albumin in eggs. Some people have severe fish allergies. Some people's throats close up if they eat any nuts. Green vegetables are loaded with oxalates. Crucifers are loaded with goitrogens that suppress thyroid functions. Berries force you to eat the seeds, which contain levels of toxins. Stone fruits, apples and almonds contain cyanide. Coconut causes nausea and digestive issues in some people. Overconsumption of liver can cause heavy metal poisoning. Citrus fruits can weaken teeth and bone. Coffee and cocoa have some of the highest levels of phytate in nature. Dairy contains inflammatory whey and casein proteins.

    EVERYTHING has poison in it. If we didn't eat anything that had a downside we'd all starve to death. All those things above are just off the top of my head, and if you want to get technical I can argue why we shouldn't eat any of them. But alas, the positives often outweigh the negatives. Like anything else, the poison is in the dose. People die from drinking too much water,you hyperventilate if you take in too much air and you get sunburn and skin cancer if you get too much sun. Without food, air, water and sunlight, you won't last very long though.

    I'd bet money far more people have fish and egg allergies than have issues with white rice. Does that make white rice healthier than fish and eggs?
    Totally 100% agree with this! I still believe this is why I know so many people who are not in any way affected by wheat/grain consumption. They only partake in moderation. I am sure I am intolerant due to the fact I was eating cereal and toast for breakfast, sandwiches for lunch and pasta for dinner (not to mention biscuits and muesli bars etc for snacks) daily for over a 25 year period! Most people I know that are fine with it only have wheat/grains at one/two meals per day maximum.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TARNIP View Post
    Totally 100% agree with this! I still believe this is why I know so many people who are not in any way affected by wheat/grain consumption. They only partake in moderation. I am sure I am intolerant due to the fact I was eating cereal and toast for breakfast, sandwiches for lunch and pasta for dinner (not to mention biscuits and muesli bars etc for snacks) daily for over a 25 year period! Most people I know that are fine with it only have wheat/grains at one/two meals per day maximum.
    That's interesting, because one of the additives I have a problem with (sodium nitrite) occurs in foods that I used to eat TONS of the first 25 years of my life. It's also an additive most other people don't have a problem with.
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  4. #14
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    I've never really believed that intolerances are caused by general consumption of certain foods, as Choco mentioned earlier, there are antinutrients in just about everything we eat which leads me to believe that intolerances are more likely caused by an over-consumption of those foods. These days wheat is literally in everything so even if you think you only eat it in bread/cereal/pasta when you look at labels more carefully you begin to realize it is in your gravies, sauces, most bottled condiments and even some dairy foods such as yoghurt and icecream as wheat thickener is cheaper to use than eggs. We are literally poisoning ourselves with the stuff unknowingly...... This is why I make sure not to eat my 3-4 egg omelet every morning for breakfast as I am concerned that in about 10 years time I could possibly end up with an egg intolerance. I try to eat a seasonal rotation of different foods to avoid any more intolerance issues.........
    Last edited by TARNIP; 07-05-2012 at 08:09 PM.

  5. #15
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    Just thank god that you're not intolerant of salicylates and amines. They're practically in everything. It would be much harder than being allergic to gluten in terms of dietary restrictions.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TARNIP View Post
    I've never really believed that intolerances are caused by general consumption of certain foods, as Choco mentioned earlier, there are antinutrients in just about everything we eat which leads me to believe that intolerances are more likely caused by an over-consumption of those foods. These days wheat is literally in everything so even if you think you only eat it in bread/cereal/pasta when you look at labels more carefully you begin to realize it is in your gravies, sauces, most bottled condiments and even some dairy foods such as yoghurt and icecream as wheat thickener is cheaper to use than eggs. We are literally poisoning ourselves with the stuff unknowingly...... This is why I make sure not to eat my 3-4 egg omelet every morning for breakfast as I am concerned that in about 10 years time I could possibly end up with an egg intolerance. I try to eat a seasonal rotation of different foods to avoid any more intolerance issues.........
    I don't know...it also seems that regular consumption helps mediate your food intolerances. Example: I never had issues with wheat before. However, if I were to eat wheat now, it would be a noticeable difference in digestion. 2 weeks ago I had a wedding so out of respect I ate a piece of the wedding cake. Physically I felt fine - no digestive stress, pain, no sugar crash, etc - but I was in the bathroom 4 times the next day (nothing bad just constant, like WTF?). All because of a lousy piece of cake. I've read that your body adapts to toxins in foods after awhile, and while wheat may give you stress at first, eventually you will "get used to it" and the bad reactions will disappear. I think of celiacs who have been eating wheat for life and not realizing they had issues, yet once they get off of it, they have a much more severe reaction if they come into contact with a much smaller amount. It's like your body builds up an "immune system" against bad foods, and that "immune system" disappears after awhile so you become more sensitive to bad foods. I see it time and time again where people feel terrible after going out to eat after months of being primal where it was never an issue before.

    That's not a license to eat bad food by any means! I'm simply stating that the human body is an amazing thing and it can adapt and survive on some pretty terrible things. It also goes to show you how toxic these things really are. You don't know how bad wheat and soybean oil are until you cut them out for awhile, then add them back in.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 07-06-2012 at 05:17 AM.
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  7. #17
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    You mean like how alcoholics can drink more than people who don't drink?

  8. #18
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    Buckwheat, of the Rhubarb family, technically not a grain, has prolamines

    Some celiacs report that they bloat and have pain after eating kasha or 100% buckwheat flour pancakes. It has lectins too. Some evolutionary trick has put a toxic peptide chain into buckwheat despite its far distant relation to the other grains.

    What! There's No Such Thing As Gluten-free Grains?
    That can't be right!!!" you say. But indeed it is; it's true! ALL grains contain gluten.

    http://urbanposer.blogspot.com/2012/01/what-theres-no-such-thing-as-gluten_02.html

    There is much confusion surrounding the enigma that we call 'Gluten'. This is largely because almost all of the data that the majority of the medical community is going on has not been revisited or updated in as much as 60 YEARS. Now that's some old information! And from the looks of it there are no plans to update that anytime soon.

    So before we move on, let's try to define gluten. If you look up 'gluten' in the dictionary, you will find that webster's definition is ALSO based on that old and outdated information; referring ONLY to wheat, rye, barley and oats. However, what we now know from modern studies is that "gluten" is actually a mixture of proteins found in ALL grains. It is composed of two primary 'subfractions' known as Prolamines and Glutelins.

    The prolamine known as "gliadin" is the most studied in medical literature; primarily as it relates to Celiac Disease. Many people, including doctors, do not understand that the prolamine, "gliadin" is not the ONLY type of gluten out there, nor is it the ONLY one reeking havoc in peoples bodies. It is, however, the ONLY one that is routinely tested for and since recent studies have identified least 400 other gluten proteins out there, you may not be getting the right test done!

    So, let's take a look at some of the other 'prolamines' out there...

    The Prolamine Fraction of Proteins in Grains

    Grain Prolamine % Total Protein
    Wheat Gliadin 69%
    Rye Secalinin 30-50%
    Oats Avenin 16%
    Barley Hordein 46-52%
    Millet Panicin 40%
    Corn Zien 55%
    Rice Orzenin 5%
    Sorgum Kafirin 52%

    *This is excerpted. There's more to the full web page, including a video by
    Dr. Peter Osborne.
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  9. #19
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    All life has proteins. My reading of the above is:

    (a) All grain proteins can be put into two classes
    (b) One of the proteins in one of the classes is bad
    (c) Therefore all proteins in that class are bad
    (d) Therefore all grains/seeds containing that class are bad

    I think more science is required, especially support for the statement that: "gliadin" is not the ONLY type of gluten out there, nor is it the ONLY one reeking havoc in peoples bodies
    Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

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  10. #20
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    @peril,

    Definitely more food scientists ought to have explored this. This specific study was from 12 years ago:
    Buckwheat Prolamin and Its Antioxidative Activity (2001)
    Takanori KUSANO, Hiroko CHIUE and Kimikazu IWAMI

    Department of Nutrition, Kobe-Gakuin University
    Ikawadani-cho Arise, Nishi-ku, Kobe 651-2180, Japan
    Department of Biological Resource Chemistry, Kyoto Prefectural University
    Shimogamo Nakaragi-cho, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8522, Japan

    Source: http://lnmcp.mf.uni-lj.si/Fago/SYMPO.../2001s-629.pdf

    Quote

    ABSTRACT
    Buckwheat prolamins were most effectively extracted from buckwheat (Fagopyrum
    esculentum Moench) flour by 55% n-propanol and were 3.37 to 4.95% of total protein under
    the most efficient conditions for extraction (at 60C). Amino acid analysis data showed that
    buckwheat prolamin didn't exhibit one of characteristics of cereal prolamins, the high
    glutamate/glutamine and proline content.
    The antioxidative activity of buckwheat prolamin
    was investigated. The peroxide value under powder model systems and radical scavenging
    effect were evaluated. Buckwheat prolamin was effective inhibitor of the oxidation of linoleic
    acid.


    INTRODUCTION
    Oxidative deterioration of unsaturated lipid-rich foods doesn't only lessen their tasty or
    nutritive value but also brings about toxicity in an extreme case. Food manufactures make use
    of antioxidants and often package their goods under anaerobic conditions for prevention of
    possible troubles. The use of synthetic antioxidants such as butylhydroxyanisole and
    butylhydroxytoluene tends to be recently avoided because of a doubt upon their safety for
    health (Grice 1988, Witschi, 1986).

    Instead, much interest has been directed toward the
    development of natural and more safe antioxidants, e.g. amino acids (Gopala et al., 1994,
    Kawashima et al., 1979), peptides (Yamaguchi et al., 1979), proteins (Laakso 1984) and so on
    (Nakatani 1990, Namiki 1990). Among such promising foodstuffs are cereal prolamins
    represented by wheat gliadin (Iwami 1987), maize zein (Wang 1991) and barley hordein
    (Chiue 1996).

    In previous paper (Iwami et al. 1987, 1988) we have offered a plausible
    explanation for the mechanism from a physical rather than chemical point of views. Although
    all of prolamins are soluble in aq. alcohols, they vary considerable in their other properties,
    notable MW and pI values and amino acid compositions.


    While cereal prolamin has been
    intensively studied in relation to the quality of the grain for baking (wheat), malting (barley),
    and feeding to domestic animals, we know relatively little about dicotyledonous prolamins.
    Our object is to investigate the properties of buckwheat prolamin and to check its
    antioxidative activity.


    MATERIALS AND METHODS
    Commercially available common buckwheat (Fagopyrum esculentum) was used. The husks
    of the seed were removed and ground.
    Flour was extracted with 0.5M NaCl before alcohol extractions. The range of concentration
    of the three alcholols tested, I-propanol (n-propyl alcohol), 2-propanol (iso-propyl alcohol)
    and ethyl alcohol, was 30-80% (w/w) at room temperature and 60C.

    Nitrogen contents and
    Protein content of the extracts were determined by the Kjeldahl method and the Lowry method
    using bovine serum albumin as a standard. The protein fraction was thoroughly dialyzed
    against the aqueous alcohol and distilled water, lyophilized and. pulverized. Wheat gliadin was
    prepared in a similar manner from their respective flours for reference. Other chemicals were
    of analytical grade and commercially available, and used as such without further purification.

    SDS-PAGE. Extracted proteins of buckwheat were electrophoresed using the discontinuous
    buffer system of Laemmle (Laemmle 1970)on a slab gel containing 12.5% acrylamide.

    Amino acid analysis
    Protein samples were hydrolyzed in evacuated sealed tubes in 6N HCI at 110C for 22hrs
    and then analyzed with an amino acid analyzer. Tryptophan and cystine content were not
    determined.

    Powder model system for autoxidation
    Buckwheat prolamin was suspended in an equivoluminal mixture of chloroform and
    methanol containing linoleic-palmitic(2: 1) acid at 10wt% of protein. These samples were then
    put in a 60C or 100C incubator without moisture control after completely removing the
    organic solvent. Definite amounts of the respective samples were taken out after specific
    periods and assayed for both accumulated hydroperoxides and residual fatty acids. PV at each
    sampling time during the storage period is, for convenience, expressed as the absorbance at
    500nm under the routine assay conditions. Unimpaired linoleic ans palmitic aicd, which were
    almost quantitatively extracted with chloroform-methanol (1: 1), were esterified with PNBDI
    and determined by HPLC. a-Corn starch was used as a reference control not having
    antioxidative activity throughout this experiment.

    Radical-scavengging effect
    In the 1.0 x 10-4 M ethanol solution of DPPH, tested compounds were added. The solution
    was shaken vigorously and kept in the dark for 30 min. The absorbance of the samples was
    measured on a spectrophotometer at 517nm against a blank of ethanol without DPPH.

    RESULTS AND DISCUSSION
    There has been little work on buckwheat prolamin except for the standpoint of gluten sensitive
    enteropathy
    (Skerritt 1986, Friis 1988). There are probably several reasons for this,
    including the low content and the problems in purifying single homogenous proteins.
    Prolamins were extracted from mature common buckwheat flour with aqueous alcohols. Most
    effective solvent was 55% n-propanol and more prolamin was extracted at 60C, which was
    used in preparation of prolamin unless otherwise stated. The amount of prolamin was from
    3.37 to 4.95 % of total protein.


    Cereal prolamin is generally rich in glutamate/glutamine and
    proline
    (Shewry et aI., 1994), but as in buckwheat the combined proportions of these two
    amino acids vary from 11.1 to 20.4 % well below average in other cereals. Buckwheat
    prolamin was composed of many kinds of subunits polyperptides.
    Their molecular weight
    from SDS-PAGE data was smaller than that of most cereal prolamins which were about 30,000
    to 90,000 (Shewry et aI., 1994).

    Although it had been reported that cereal prolamin exhibited antioxidative activity against
    linoleic acid, the acceptable hypothesis had not been offered so far. Buckwheat prolamin was
    found to exhibit antioxidative effect in powder model systems and radical scavenging activity
    .

    At the same time non-protein antioxidant compounds from buckwheat have been reported
    (Oomah et al. 1996, Watanabe et aI., 1997). A possibility that tocopherols may function as a
    primary antioxidant can be excluded by the finding that the washing treatment of buckwheat
    prolamine with several kinds of organic solvents scarcely lowered its antioxidative activity. In
    addition, it seems unlikely that flavonoids are kept back in buckwheat prolamin, because the
    protein in preparing it has not only been extracted with 55% n-propanol but also adequately
    dialyzed against the same solvent.

    To understand the relationship between the antioxidative activity and physical and chemical
    properties of buckwheat prolamin, the evaluation of antioxidative activity of buckwheat
    prolamin should be performed at the subunit level.

    In any case, further investigation is required to elucidate the mechanism of antioxidation and
    its practical application to food storage.
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
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