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Thread: Dr. Mcdougall rips apart the paleo diet - your thoughts? page 4

  1. #31
    Ayla's Avatar
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    He's entitled to his closed-minded opinion, although I could quickly debunk almost all of his points using a variety of sources. First of all, he has a mostly incorrect understanding of the principles and practices of a paleo way of eating. I have noticed this about him before- he twists the guidelines into a completely different diet so that he can knock it down. This is besides the fact that he has completely bought into the Ancel Keyes diet-heart hypothesis, which is based on flawed, capitalistic science (no matter how many times you say "artery-clogging saturated fats" does not make it true, to use his own criticism).

    Two quick things I must comment on- ketosis is absolutely NOT a state of illness. That's ketoacidosis, it's a completely different process. Ketosis is a very healthy and healing process. We've all seen lots of info about this, but the idea that ketosis is illness or dangerous is absolutely false.

    I think most of you quit reading the article before he gets emotional and says that the "paleo diet" is REPULSIVE. How offensive can you be? There are a lot of elements of life on earth that involve doing and eating things that are necessary and natural, whether or not some personal minds consider it "repulsive." Things that are repulsive to him may be a treasured, sacred rite to others, and may be vital to health. Is mensturation repulsive? Is giving birth repulsive? Is a lion eating a gazelle repulsive? Or less naturally/more culturally, Is drinking wine and calling it the blood of Christ repulsive? What about clipping your nails or blowing your nose? Putting in contact lenses? What he finds repulsive would probably dishonor and offend 99% of the people who have ever lived on the earth. This is entirely limited to his individual perspective and has nothing at all to do with science or health and everything to do with cultural conditioning and personal choice. He has a right to that opinion, but please do not believe that calling something repulsive makes it unhealthy or unnatural.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayla View Post

    I think most of you quit reading the article before he gets emotional and says that the "paleo diet" is REPULSIVE. How offensive can you be? There are a lot of elements of life on earth that involve doing and eating things that are necessary and natural, whether or not some personal minds consider it "repulsive." Things that are repulsive to him may be a treasured, sacred rite to others, and may be vital to health. Is mensturation repulsive? Is giving birth repulsive? Is a lion eating a gazelle repulsive? Or less naturally/more culturally, Is drinking wine and calling it the blood of Christ repulsive? What about clipping your nails or blowing your nose? Putting in contact lenses? What he finds repulsive would probably dishonor and offend 99% of the people who have ever lived on the earth. This is entirely limited to his individual perspective and has nothing at all to do with science or health and everything to do with cultural conditioning and personal choice. He has a right to that opinion, but please do not believe that calling something repulsive makes it unhealthy or unnatural.
    LMAO! That part was cracking me up too

  3. #33
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    The interesting aspect is that paleo diet is actually pretty low fat....
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    The interesting aspect is that paleo diet is actually pretty low fat....
    Really? That's new.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodorchid View Post
    every diet in the world has studies that prove it's healthy and prove it's harmful, and not even counting the rest of the internet, there have been soooo manyyyy threads here about this very thing

    group A will come by and say 'those writers got it totally wrong and here's why *lays out 15 different studies*'
    group B will swing around and say 'no they're right, excluding entire food groups is unhealthy and can lead to disordered eating *lays out 7 studies saying why*'
    group C, like me, will meander in and say 'how many times do you people want to have the same conversation when you're just gonna do what you want anyway?'
    My thoughts exactly.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JennaRose View Post
    LMAO! That part was cracking me up too
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  7. #37
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    honestly, I just like debates if it will lead to a better understanding (it will for me at least). The problem I see (and that is why these debates would go no where) is that vegans/vegetarians already (like you guys said) treat their diet as a religion. As we all know religion is pretty prevalent in the U.S. (I thought I remember a poll showing that people would rather have a gay president than an atheist), and people usually don't stray from their religious beliefs.

    I'll email Mark Sisson and see what he has to say. I'd understand if he didn't want to respond (as he already has responded to his vegan vacation with Dr. Mcdougall), but refuting each point Dr. McDougall makes would be nice. I simply don't have the access to the research articles (and I'm not about to just read abstracts) to reinforce my views.

    It is interesting though that their are countless vegans and vegetarians who are healthy (weight wise and by blood test). Doesn't this refute the whole notion of a 'perfect human diet' as the fillm of that same name implies ("in search of the perfect human diet")? I haven't seen the film but hopefully can find it somewhere.

    Finally, I'm with you all in that if you feel good on a particular diet why change it. My curiousity lies in finding a more or less 'ideal way of eating for all humans as that film implies. It's an interesting notion but does it really take into account genetics, and other factors that may predispose people to certain diseases no matter what their diet is?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent* View Post
    I don't want to turn this into a vegan attack but am curious what your guys' thoughts are after reading this article from him bashing everything about the paleo diet

    McDougall Newsletter: June 2012 - The Paleo Diet is Uncivilized (And Unhealthy and Untrue)

    Is there a chance Mark Sisson would respond to this article? I know the 'starch solution' book has just been released by dr. Mcdougall.

    also, this is a pretty interesting article as well:

    Paleo Diet Review: Pros and Cons -- Natural Health Newsletter

    I've always been curious about the consumption of meat and the acidic nature of it.
    Just on this point alone... most people who separate foods based on their "acidifying" nature... place grains and legumes right over there with meat on the acidifying side of the equation... and some meats are considered less acidifying than some grain products. It's the fresh herbs, fruits, and vegetables that are alkalizing. Sooo........ since you get a greater amount of nutrition from a smaller portion of meat... meat still WINS.
    Yeah... also there is whole a lot of science that completely debunks the acid/alkaline thing. But if you believe it, the above is notable.
    I actually follow it to a degree, with one blind eye and my fingers crossed, because even though I know there is Science that says it doesn't work that way... it can't hurt me to eat lots of herbs, veg, fruit, and meat because it is a concentrated protein and vitamin/mineral source... and because I take a medication that makes me likely to get a bad case of metabolic acidosis.
    Last edited by cori93437; 07-03-2012 at 12:35 PM.
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  9. #39
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    Really? That's new.
    No, that's old. Paleo diet at its inception based itself off the premise that the wild game meats are lean, so it recommended lean meats consumption, no dairy, no butter, no bacon and a lot of leafy vegetables (and no tubers/starches). Basically, lean proteins, limited added fats (olive oil, avocado, back then, canola). As years went by, there was idea introduced that fat came from organ meats, bone marrow etc, and higher fat variations developed, such as Mark's Primal Blueprint variation. Now, Paleo-Primal family of diets covers any number of lifestyles with various inclusions and exclusions. Just because a person calls him or herself a paleo-eater you cannot assume that they do not use butter, for example, or vinegar (Cordain, for one, forbade vinegar....) Basically everyone seem to ignore prohibitions on salt and alcohol, initially inherent to the paleo.
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  10. #40
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    My brain doesn't process the science of all this so I don't even try. However, my eyes work pretty good so all I have to do is compare a picture of the skeletal, pasty and weak-looking Mr. & Mrs. McDougall with the absurdly fit, tan and healthy-looking Mr. & Mrs. Sisson and I know what tribe I'm joining.

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