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Thread: Post scientific studies suggesting grains are bad for you here... page 15

  1. #141
    Apex Predator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimhensen View Post
    I will respond to this with a quote I read on another forum, that is EXTREMELY relevant.
    That explains the trouble with *digestion discomfort*(I've re-introduced meat, and carbs at two different points in my life-I've experienced it.). It does not explain other effects, such as blood in stools, diarrhea/constipation, sinus issues, malaise, muscle pain, joint pain, depression etc. The placebo effect does not explain the common experience of having the symptom first, then backtracking to find gluten contamination that was not known when the symptoms manifested.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apex Predator View Post
    That explains the trouble with *digestion discomfort*(I've re-introduced meat, and carbs at two different points in my life-I've experienced it.). It does not explain other effects, such as blood in stools, diarrhea/constipation, sinus issues, malaise, muscle pain, joint pain, depression etc. The placebo effect does not explain the common experience of having the symptom first, then backtracking to find gluten contamination that was not known when the symptoms manifested.
    Yeah well if I pooped blood after eating grains I would stop eating them too. I just don't think that your complaints are common. But I do think other than blood in the stool all of those could be at least partially due to the placebo effect.

  3. #143
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    Looks like you [jim] never bothered to read any of the studies that it is not just celiacs and those with sensitivities that gluten affects....why am I not surprised.

    And you still have not given a good reason why we should should eat tasteless, nutritionally deficient high GI glues/food ?
    Last edited by Dirlot; 07-03-2012 at 09:34 AM.
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  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by some asshole
    Actually [eliminating wheat for a period of time] will show you nothing. Ditto if you eat low carb/fat for a month then re-introduce higher levels of carbs/fat you will feel like crap for a while until your body gets used to it again. A lot of the enzymes responsible for helping to digest wheat get down-regulated if you don't eat it for an extended period, so then if you suddenly eat it you will be very sensitive to it for a while. The same applies to dairy, vegans who re-introduce animal products and more. It's commonly suggested by paleo folks to do an 'elimination diet' but they won't mention the above factoid. Not to mention the placebo effect, if you think wheat is bad, so you eliminate it for a month, then when you go to eat it again, you're EXPECTING a negative reaction, so you're more likely to get it, and attribute any reactions you get to the wheat. So you may go gluten and dairy free for a month, eat pizza, then feel horrible and declare the gluten to be the problem, when maybe it was the cheese?
    Down-regulation of enzymes? Placebo effect, eh? Perhaps you're right, gluten doesn't hurt people...

    "GS patients are defined as those patients in which CD, wheat allergy and other clinically overlapping diseases (type 1 diabetes, inflammatory bowel diseases and Helicobacter pylori infection) have been ruled out and whose symptoms were triggered by gluten exposure and alleviated by gluten withdrawal. All enrolled patients underwent a gluten challenge carried out for approximately 4 months under clinical supervision. At the end of the challenge, patients underwent CD serology screening, Human Leukocyte Antigen (HLA) DQ2/DQ8 typing and an upper endoscopy with duodenal biopsies. Once endoscopies were performed, patients were placed back on a gluten-free diet and their symptoms monitored over time. GS were considered those patients with negative autoantibody serology (endomysium antibodies-immunoglobulin A (EMA-IgA) and tTG-IgA), normal mucosa (Marsh stage 0) or increased intraepithelial lymphocytes (Marsh stage 1) and improvement of symptoms within days of the implementation of the diet."

    BMC Medicine | Full text | Divergence of gut permeability and mucosal immune gene expression in two gluten-associated conditions: celiac disease and gluten sensitivity

    Again, the only point to argue here is how many people are hurt by wheat, which no one really knows. It's a pretty big waste of money to have everyone in the country tested just because it's good to know, so if people find they feel better without it--and get healthier--who the fuck cares? It's not that tasty, either. Not in its "healthy" form.

    And if you're really curious to test the down-regulation of enzymes theory (the whole grain flu?), ask KathyH. She reintroduced wheat with no ill effect. I wonder if she had an adjustment period.
    Last edited by Timthetaco; 07-03-2012 at 07:42 AM.

  5. #145
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    Here's the thing, as my gastroenterologist put it, Gluten Sensitivity is a "Medical Research" term. From a Medical Treatment standpoint, you are either Celiac, or your aren't Celiac. If you're Celiac, the only question is, "to what degree are you sensitive?". That said, if you test negative for Celiac but have gastrointestinal issues, many, many specialists are getting to the point of recommending patients eliminate gluten to see if symptoms improve.

    This recommendation isn't based on some huge study. Rather, it's usually based on their own experience treating patients and seeing results through the span of many, many years.

    Grains and Carbohydrates are being used interchangeably, and they aren't interchangeable. There are too many pot smoking, obese people in the world thinking that the only way to get carbs is to consume some form of wheat an/or unbleached white flour concoction.

    The point in my pseudo-rant several pages back (I actually wasn't emotional at all) was that a study to properly and definitively link conditions like "Celiac" or "Gluten Sensitive" to the consumption of Wheat, Rye and Barley, is a study that has to be done generationally. It would be a HUGE undertaking spanning several decades with thousands of participants. A lot of the theory behind it all is that damaged gut flora is passed down from mom and dad to offspring, who are born with issues (or close to it) and thus develop Celiac at a very young age.

    The problem with this discussion is that many of us with gluten issues, myself included, have just as many if not more symptoms that aren't gastrointestinal than ones that are. I exhibited symptoms that I never knew were related to the "brain in our guts" like severe ADHD, dehydration, lethargy, depression and joint pain. The only gastrointestinal issues I had were random stomach pains and diarrhea several times a day.

    All of those issues are clearing up and there's probably only a fraction of Celiac's that share the exact same symptoms as me. My gastroenterologist even has one patient that he says is Italian (grew up there and has family there) that exhibits zero symptoms but a blood test came back positive after he had a myriad of tests done over a separate issue including a damaged gut.

    So how many people like that are floating around? Maybe not many, maybe a lot. But one thing is for sure, unless everyone got screened for the sake of screening, many people that have gluten issues may never even know it. The range of symptoms and varying degrees of severity is one of the reasons why more and more countries in Europe are screening kids for Celiac in schools now. My point, if I have one, is that studies are interesting, and studies can be largely pointless. For every study that says eating eggs is good for you, there's one that says eating eggs is bad for you. These random, small time studies can be food for thought and give reason to investigate a concept farther, but none of them are particularly definitive. Sometimes the anecdotal can be more affective than the empirical. Ask anyone with gluten issues if they'd go back on it if they were told by their doctor's that they didn't have a problem consuming it and almost all of us will tell you HELL NO!
    Last edited by Catharsis; 07-03-2012 at 08:43 AM.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catharsis View Post
    There are too many pot smoking, obese people in the world thinking that the only way to get carbs is to consume some form of wheat an/or unbleached white flour concoction.

    What does pot smoking have to do with it?

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimhensen View Post
    What does pot smoking have to do with it?
    You tell us....something is driving your obsession to eat and your obsession to make us eat, tasteless, nutritionally void, high GI glue.
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  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirlot View Post
    You tell us....something is driving your obsession to eat and your obsession to make us eat, tasteless, nutritionally void, high GI glue.
    Meh, I would pass a drug test right now. I haven't even drank a beer since I started eating healthier a little less than a month ago. I can't even smoke weed anymore to be honest. I get too paranoid.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimhensen View Post
    Meh, I would pass a drug test right now. I haven't even drank a beer since I started eating healthier a little less than a month ago. I can't even smoke weed anymore to be honest. I get too paranoid.
    And lets not draw any conclusions based on if someone use to smoke a little bud now and then....

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    And lets not draw any conclusions based on if someone use to smoke a little bud now and then....
    I used to smoke a lot more than a little.

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