Has ANY study shown eating lots of meat is good for longevity and health? page 4

[ToldUzo]

Interesting thoughts. There's also the aspect of getting enough sun exposure and fresh air.

But really, who knows how long any population will live from now on, since many things in the world have changed since the now-living centenarians where young?

[zoebird]

First, you have to back track on definition of terms. No way my diet is "50% meat/eggs."

My average day is about 40% fat; 30% protein; 30% carbohydrate. That is typically is 2-3 hard boiled eggs and about 5-10 oz of meat. Everything else is fruit and veggies. When you are talking volume, it's mostly veggies. When you are talking nutrient/calorie density, most of it sits in the meat/eggs.

So, on the first premise, we aren't the same.

Second, I think that the most interesting thing about longevity studies points to two things: good/high cholesterol levels (i think this keeps hormones working, higher brain function, healthier cells over all, etc), and calorie restriction.

By the second one, I don't mean only eating 1000 calories a day or whatever stuff some people do. But, I find that by having a sense of the right amount of calories for you, and maintaining that -- with the occasional fasts and such -- this improves longevity.

before primal, my daily caloric intake was around 1800-2000 calories per day. With primal, it's usually 1500-1700, with the occasional 1800 day (feast days) and the occasional 1200 calorie day (fast days). I've found that my body just naturally goes into this "calorie restriction" -- and in no way am I saying this is the right number for every one.

I'm just saying that studies show that calorie restriction does increase longevity, and so it's easy enough to find the way that you want to calorie restrict (in a way that works for you), if you want to follow this particular path of longevity.

[JudyCr]

That's so good, zoebird, I just read it to 7 people.

[sbhikes]

One final thing is that they really believe in smiling and compassion; doing good deeds for everyone. According to one lady I spoke to, it soothes the soul like no else, and the body responds in kind. They really are a nice bunch of people, and I wish I lived in the city proper.

Oh yeah, don't forget this one. Actually I bet there's a stronger correlation of people helping other people and long life than almost anything else.

And those who point out that it's not really lots of meat are right. But what if for some of us it is a lot of meat?

I find the more I eat of meat and fish and eggs the more right I feel. I sometimes go days with very few vegetables. I go weeks with no fruit (this isn't one of them though!) I've never felt better. I eat organ meats like liver and heart and I eat canned salmon with the skin and bones, I slow cook chuck roasts and save the broth (it's all gelatinous) for later. I have Finnish and Swedish ancestry so it's not hard to fathom that maybe somewhere back in there I was related to reindeer herders. And even if that is not true, I had a million allergies as a child so maybe eliminating so many allergenic foods is what makes me feel so good, I don't know. I bought a bikini yesterday so even if I drop dead a few years earlier, if I can wear a bikini and not feel like I want to die of mortification right this second, it might actually be worth it.

[KathyH]

Too many people focus only on Blue Zone peoples' diets and forget other aspects of their lives. They all live in strong, close-knit communities where elders are highly valued and treated as full members of the community even in very old age. One of the big factors in longevity is social connection and the care and support of people around you.

I think their food does play a role--mostly whole, fresh foods, prepared in traditional ways. None of these groups are eating a lot of junk, processed foods, or refined sugars. That plays a role right there, sure. But food is not the only factor in health.

Also, the Sardinians eat a fair bit of meat and seafood.

But really, a lot of paleo/primal folks don't eat massive quantities of meat. I might eat meat once or twice a day (and I include fish as meat). I tend to eat a lot of eggs, often 4-6 per day either as an egg dish or in other dishes, and I eat loads of vegetables and some dairy in the form of cheese or sometimes whey protein. As a 155 lb woman at about 20% bodyfat, to hit the 0.7g of protein per pound of lean mass per day, I need about 87g, which is quite easy eating an 8-10oz steak and 4 eggs per day plus incidentals like a bit of cheese--add a can of tuna or some leftover chicken at lunchtime and it starts to approach the 1g/lb mark, but I can meet my minimum eating meat just once a day. That's not what I'd define as a "high meat" diet.

How do you know we need 0.7g of protein per pound of lean mass per day? Whose recommendations are those? These numbers are all over the place that I am not sure who to trust.
Also, is there a definitive answer that the proteins have to come partially from meat? Can they come from other sources to meet the requirement (whatever it might be)? I am curious because I know people who eat meat once a week or so and they don't have any issues and they would consider your eating meat once a day a "high meat" consumption.

[Dirlot]

The body needs protein and fat - Remove either of these you die.

[KathyH]

File:Maasai-jump.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia or File:Bundesarchiv Bild 105-DOA0556, Deutsch-Ostafrika, Massaikrieger.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia look pretty damn fit to me. Their traditional diet is meat, milk and blood. All raw.

Tercio

But you can't just look at some photos and conclude that these people live long and healthy life. I actually haven't seen any studies discussing Massai longevity. I would love to read them. Same goes for Inuits.

[bob loblaw]

But you can't just look at some photos and conclude that these people live long and healthy life. I actually haven't seen any studies discussing Massai longevity. I would love to read them. Same goes for Inuits.

I once read the Massai only had a life expectancy of 45, but that is largely irrelevant, since they don't have the same simple things we have. (antibiotics being the most important.)

I think one of the things that scares me is that we have to reference groups like the Massai and Inuit when trying to validate our why of eating with some kind of factual basis. At least I can somewhat relate to an Okinawan lifestyle or especially the Loma Linda lifestyle, but the Massai and Inuit are simply so far from what we know as life that to me, their story just means very little.

[bob loblaw]

Oh yeah, don't forget this one. Actually I bet there's a stronger correlation of people helping other people and long life than almost anything else.

And those who point out that it's not really lots of meat are right. But what if for some of us it is a lot of meat?

I find the more I eat of meat and fish and eggs the more right I feel. I sometimes go days with very few vegetables. I go weeks with no fruit (this isn't one of them though!) I've never felt better. I eat organ meats like liver and heart and I eat canned salmon with the skin and bones, I slow cook chuck roasts and save the broth (it's all gelatinous) for later. I have Finnish and Swedish ancestry so it's not hard to fathom that maybe somewhere back in there I was related to reindeer herders. And even if that is not true, I had a million allergies as a child so maybe eliminating so many allergenic foods is what makes me feel so good, I don't know. I bought a bikini yesterday so even if I drop dead a few years earlier, if I can wear a bikini and not feel like I want to die of mortification right this second, it might actually be worth it.

Great point.

If we enjoy life more eating this lifestyle, but it doesn't extend our life, was it still worth it? I say yes. However, if it ends up shortening our lives or we wend up with the same end of life diseases at early ages like people eating the SAD, that would certainly be a different story.

I am still paleo, but I'm definitely reconsidering my meat content and thinking about bringing it down.

[bob loblaw]

So, on the first premise, we aren't the same.

Second, I think that the most interesting thing about longevity studies points to two things: good/high cholesterol levels (i think this keeps hormones working, higher brain function, healthier cells over all, etc), and calorie restriction.

By the second one, I don't mean only eating 1000 calories a day or whatever stuff some people do. But, I find that by having a sense of the right amount of calories for you, and maintaining that -- with the occasional fasts and such -- this improves longevity.

before primal, my daily caloric intake was around 1800-2000 calories per day. With primal, it's usually 1500-1700, with the occasional 1800 day (feast days) and the occasional 1200 calorie day (fast days). I've found that my body just naturally goes into this "calorie restriction" -- and in no way am I saying this is the right number for every one.

I'm just saying that studies show that calorie restriction does increase longevity, and so it's easy enough to find the way that you want to calorie restrict (in a way that works for you), if you want to follow this particular path of longevity.

The cholesterol part is a bit misleading. The Okinawans centenarians had a higher cholesterol level than your typical Okinawan, but that doesn't mean it was even close to the level of your typical Paelo follower. From what I see on the forums, it wouldn't shock me if our average total cholesterol was over 225 or even closer to 250. (Not that I am saying that is BAD necessarily, just that it's like MUCH higher than a traditional Okinawan.)

I like your take on things, however, and I agree. I'm a 200 lbs male and I find myself consistently eating less than 2000 calories a day right now. (On days I'm not active, as low as 1500.) I feel like just eating non industrially processed foods and eating natural foods is one thing that all these cultures had in common.

Also, I think stress is a huge deal. Not how much you have, but how you handle it. Many of the people who lived past 100 had endured far more stressful situations than most of us can ever dream, but they handled it in a way that allowed them to move on and endure life with a smile.