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Thread: Has ANY study shown eating lots of meat is good for longevity and health? page 2

  1. #11
    JudyCr's Avatar
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    It is so hard to get across to people that the fat on grocery store type steaks is full of toxins and to be avoided at all costs.
    But the fat on grass fed meat is very good for us and that's why it's so dang tasty.
    My family looked at me like I was nuts when I told them this and to buy from an eat wild farm very close to all of them and stay away from grocery store meats. Knowledge is a wonderful thing

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    What about the plains Indians? How about the reindeer herders of Lapland? The bushmen of Africa? The aborigines of Australia? What about the nomadic people of the Russian steppes and central Asians? How about the Mongolians? I don't know how long these folks lived, but it's likely they consumed a lot of meat and were healthier before the introduction of modern foods.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    What about the plains Indians? How about the reindeer herders of Lapland? The bushmen of Africa? The aborigines of Australia? What about the nomadic people of the Russian steppes and central Asians? How about the Mongolians? I don't know how long these folks lived, but it's likely they consumed a lot of meat and were healthier before the introduction of modern foods.
    Isn't it strange that when trying to substantiate our dietary lifestyle, these are the groups we choose? People who may or may not have even lived very long? People who live a livestyle that none of us can relate to at all? People who I, at least, have no interest in living like?

    I'll admit, I'm tainted right now because I'm reading "The Blue Zones", but I can't help but think we are missing the obvious groups. The Seventh Day Adventists in Linda Loma, CA live relatively normal, modern lifestyles...yet have amazing health. They eat little meat and lots of fruits, vegetables, and nuts. They DO fast, so that is something we have in common.

    I'm not arguing that Paleo isn't healthier than the SAD. Hell, I hope Paleo is what we think it is, since I know I can do this for the rest of my life. (Whereas becoming a vegetarian sounds miserable and hard.) I just feel like the actual people who live very long, healthful, happy lives have lived so much different from the Paleo lifestyle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post
    Isn't it strange that when trying to substantiate our dietary lifestyle, these are the groups we choose? People who may or may not have even lived very long? People who live a livestyle that none of us can relate to at all? People who I, at least, have no interest in living like?

    I'll admit, I'm tainted right now because I'm reading "The Blue Zones", but I can't help but think we are missing the obvious groups. The Seventh Day Adventists in Linda Loma, CA live relatively normal, modern lifestyles...yet have amazing health. They eat little meat and lots of fruits, vegetables, and nuts. They DO fast, so that is something we have in common.

    I'm not arguing that Paleo isn't healthier than the SAD. Hell, I hope Paleo is what we think it is, since I know I can do this for the rest of my life. (Whereas becoming a vegetarian sounds miserable and hard.) I just feel like the actual people who live very long, healthful, happy lives have lived so much different from the Paleo lifestyle.
    I think this is an interesting way to look at it. I think that humans evolved in such broad living conditions that we are really able to live well on a wide variety of diets - provided we get a few critical things right. Those groups eat a high vegetable, high grain and legume diet, with some meat and they are quite healthy and long lived. So perhaps the commonalities with primal are the most important part.

    - they are not consuming an excess of calories. I think our bodies can process a lot of things quite well when we are not in caloric excess. Fructose in particular.

    - they eat unprocessed foods. I remember a story not too long ago about the Linda Loma town freaking out because a fast food restaurant wanted to open. In the absence of industrial seed oils, HFCS, and hyperpalatable processed foods we remain pretty health.

    - they fast

    - they encourage lots of movement


    So the key tenets are not so different. A few food items differ and the macronutrient ratio is different. But the big poisons are still avoided. Personally though, I feel pretty crappy on that type of diet. Always hungry, lots of cravings, lots of fatigue - so it wouldn't work for me.

    I would LOVE to see a modern group that lived a largely paleo diet studied.
    Last edited by jammies; 06-30-2012 at 03:27 PM.
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  6. #16
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    I also think it would be interesting to know if these "blue zone' groups use traditional preparation methods for their foods - soaking, drying, homemade bone stocks, sprouting, etc. Perhaps they are more Price style?
    Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

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    Quote Originally Posted by jammies View Post
    I also think it would be interesting to know if these "blue zone' groups use traditional preparation methods for their foods - soaking, drying, homemade bone stocks, sprouting, etc. Perhaps they are more Price style?
    yes, all of these groups for the most part were quite traditional. The young and middle aged Okinawans are not following their grandparents examples and will likely not live near as long.

  8. #18
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    The first thing I thought when I read your OP is "what do you mean *a lot* of meat?" It's a very relative term, IMO.

    If you are following Mark's advice here, you're hitting in the neighborhood of .7-1.0g protein per lb lean body weight per day, yes? If you are, let's say, 165lb male with 15% bf, that's a lean mass of about 140lbs, or in the range of 98-140g of protein per day. Let's average it, and call it 125 g of protein a day.

    If you're doing some dairy, and having, let's say, a 3-egg omelet in the morning with 1 oz cheese on it, that's about 25 g of protein.

    If you have a handful of almonds, that's about 8 g protein - you're up to 33g for the day

    If you have a salad with salmon on it for lunch - let's be generous and say a 5oz piece - that's 30 g of protein; you're up to 63 for the day.

    If dinner is a steak, and you have a moderately sized flank steak (grass-fed, of course), let's say it's 8 oz, and that's about 56g protein.

    With only one not-so-big serving of red meat, you've hit almost 125g of protein for the day. You've also gotten some fish, nuts, and eggs in there.

    If you do that a couple times a week, and rotate through some other proteins - pork, chicken, turkey, etc etc., the truth is you can be a very primal eater and NOT really eat a ton of (red) meat.

    I know some paleo/primal folks eat a lot more meat than this (I probably do - I don't track it, so I don't know), but I also think it's not at all difficult to be on a primal diet and not consume HUGE quantities of meat.
    “If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea” -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  9. #19
    bob loblaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammies View Post
    I think this is an interesting way to look at it. I think that humans evolved in such broad living conditions that we are really able to live well on a wide variety of diets - provided we get a few critical things right. Those groups eat a high vegetable, high grain and legume diet, with some meat and they are quite healthy and long lived. So perhaps the commonalities with primal are the most important part.

    - they are not consuming an excess of calories. I think our bodies can process a lot of things quite well when we are not in caloric excess. Fructose in particular.

    - they eat unprocessed foods. I remember a story not too long ago about the Linda Loma town freaking out because a fast food restaurant wanted to open. In the absence of industrial seed oils, HFCS, and hyperpalatable processed foods we remain pretty health.

    - they fast

    - they encourage lots of movement


    So the key tenets are not so different. A few food items differ and the macronutrient ratio is different. But the big poisons are still avoided. Personally though, I feel pretty crappy on that type of diet. Always hungry, lots of cravings, lots of fatigue - so it wouldn't work for me.

    I would LOVE to see a modern group that lived a largely paleo diet studied.
    Yep, I think we can all agree that unprocessed foods, activity, and lower calorie intake in general are positive things for longevity.

    Also, most of the groups had lots of stressful times, but handled their stress VERY well. They didn't stress the small stuff. Family was another common theme, the importance of family showed up a lot.

    One thing that is interesting was spirituality. While most Paleo enthusiasts tend to be atheist or agnostic (including myself), the centenarians studied in this group were almost all spiritual, whether Japanese or South American or from modern California.

  10. #20
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    It's Loma Linda, not Linda Loma. Anyway, the 7th Day Adventists probably have a low-stress lifestyle. I think stress is the biggest killer of them all, something we rarely put at the forefront even in paleo/primal discussions, although Mark really does try to.

    I think it would be great to live like a Central Asian or Mongolian person. They live in such beautiful lands. Huge mountains. Portable dwellings. Everything so decorated. I've been to Nepal. The rural people were poor but so content. Their country-side so austere but so beautiful. I could totally be an ex-pat there, at least for a while.

    Their way of life was hard, but honestly, I find our way of life to be hard, too. It's hard in a different way. I was complaining to someone the other day that I find all this planned obsolescence to be totally exhausting. I really want off the merry-go-round of it. As soon as you barely manage to learn how to use something it doesn't work anymore and you have to start again. As soon as you learn a new way to do web development, it's obsolete and you have to learn another new way. I've got a really good computer, but it's old. I don't want a new computer. The newer ones have less functionality than mine. I have lots of really old software that I would never be able to use again. It takes several days whenever I have to get a new computer just to get all the settings right and install all the freeware that I use. I don't want to do that at an ever-increasing pace. At some point, I'm going to step off the bus and let you young-uns try to keep up with the insanity. It brings me no real value to my life and once I no longer need it to earn a living, I'm outta here. But for now I have to deal with the stress and the expense. It makes folding up my yurt and riding my horse to the summer pastures sound ideal.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Heaviest squat: 180 x 2. Heaviest Deadlift: 230 x 2

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