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Thread: Why does Danny Roddy recommend sugar to reduce stress/estrogen? page 68

  1. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonb View Post
    it takes about 2.5-3kg of vegetables (including sweet potato) per day to get 150g of carbs. Obviously this is only taking into account vegetables and no other source, but it's an indicator of how little carbs vegetables actually have in them by weight.

    I would guess a lot of people get in less than this if attempting Paleo/Primal, particularly if they have been told / think they have "lactose intolerance" or "fructose malabsorption".
    I think that is a basic misunderstanding. and I think people who are highly active might need to go make a bit of an attempt to get over 200g when they need it. but things like white rice, fruit, honey, maple syrup, dairy, etc are all excellent carb sources. personally, I have focused more on eliminating the poisons than anything else. I didn't come here with weight to lose, i'm extremely active (sports, mountain biking, kayaking, etc) and I lift heavy too. so i'm not looking to restrict any macros, just trying to be the healthiest I can be
    I have a lot of hard miles on my body from before I realized I'm not 100% invulnerable. Now I just think I'm 75% invulnerable. -Mr. Anthony

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  2. #672
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    @not on the rug

    "like I said, Woo peed on the rug"


    Quote Originally Posted by simonb View Post
    In my eyes, Peat is most about affecting Hormones (measurable) and Body Temp and Pulse (measurable), NOT about what you must eat. There are differences which initially don't make sense to people schooled on Paleo/Primal.

    But there is ALSO a MASSIVE similarity/overlap between Paleo/Primal and Peat's stuff. I think people should spend time in understanding the differences, and testing them if they need it. That's all. The beauty of the approach is that it gives you measurable elements, not just weight/body fat % and how you feel.

    The 20% difference may just be the most essential part for people who have certain issues.

    From reading Peat's article about Lactate, I can now drink Milk for the first time in 3 years. All it took was to slowly introduce a small amount each day (1/2 a cup with 2 meals), and slowly taper it up, and hey presto, my supposed Lactose intolerance that I was "diagnosed" with no longer exists after 2-3 weeks!

    Obviously no one diet works for everyone. There are definitely things people can learn from Peat's writing and research, which may make a massive difference to your life.

    Tweak and track!

    Don't be scared of fructose and milk; eat to increase body temps and pulse (if low); eat late at night with "sugar" (frustose) to offset stress hormones while you sleep; use excess salt; if waking at 4am, eat/drink sugar and salt; check your hormones, try to move them into a more optimal range with diet and lifestyle; understand exercise can affect you negatively in the long term if you overdo it

    It's hardly saying drink the blood of a young child.

    I also couldn't understand why hitting the gym would make me feel great, but that I was then often injured and really, chronically tired. Peat's stuff has allowed me to understand why - it's related to hormones, and understanding exercise as a stressor.

    I see Peat as Primal / Paleo with a 20% difference, but people don't seem to want to learn and test whether that difference will improve their situations.

    If you don't need it, cool. Enjoy Paleo/Primal, but allow other people to write about it and test it.

    But remember it's there if you don't feel optimal at some stage in the future. For a long time I ignored poor digestion, freezing hands and feet, constant sore throats, poor sleep, waking at 4am, and I ignored them because I was "eating like a caveman" and losing weight while getting more ripped at the gym.

  3. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonb View Post
    You're mis-quoting Normally I was close to 150g, which people said was too high.
    what people?

    you said earlier that paleo "didn't work for you." but you were admittedly limiting your carbs. now that you eat more carbs, you're feeling better. are you still eating paleo? where did you get the misinformation that required you to eat low-carb paleo?

    i'm not blinded by anything. these are things that you wrote. just trying to figure out what you mean
    I have a lot of hard miles on my body from before I realized I'm not 100% invulnerable. Now I just think I'm 75% invulnerable. -Mr. Anthony

    Give me a spouse/life-partner who I don't want to punch in the throat when she talks. -Canio6

  4. #674
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    think they have "lactose intolerance" or "fructose malabsorption".
    I'm not sure who you're blaming for that. Primal allows both dairy and fruit. I eat both most days. I'm a cheeseaholic, and generally have a little cream in my coffee.

    Some people are lactose intolerant. Maybe what, half the world?

  5. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by not on the rug View Post
    there is no basic tenet of paleo that makes it low carb.
    Not paleo in general, but primal is absolutely a low carb diet. Mark Sisson's brand is all about lowering insulin (low carb) and becoming a "fat burning beast". He loves the ketones (low carb) and recommends avoiding starch and sugary fruit unless you're an athlete. In the primal food pyramid, fruits are a "moderation" food while added fats are not. Which part of this isn't low carb? I see very little difference between this and the Atkins diet.



    Also, Simon mentioned he was having issues with gas and bloating, which I'm positive is the true source of his failure on primal, since this diet doesn't account in the least for people with gut issues who are going to suffer greatly eating a mountain of fibrous vegetables at every meal.

  6. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonb View Post
    My first post - and it's an attack!

    Paleobird - I really think you have ruined this thread. Main point is Danny has written very succinctly with his explanations of the science that his ideas are based on, you have written apparent statements of fact with no back-up to the science, or what Body Building forums would call "Bro Science". Irrespective of who is right, your arguments have not been well formed here, and as an impartial observer, Danny crushed the debate between you.

    I am not a Peat-er to start things off. I actually found this thread in doing some research about Peat-style eating. I'm NOT a mega proponent of it, so don't dive at me like I'm just defending for the sake of it!

    As a background, Primal/Paleo didn't work for me - I lost fat (I had full body composition tests every 6-8 weeks), got more toned (increase muscle mass slightly), LOOKED better, FELT CRAP.

    I'm young and exercise a fair amount.

    Poor Sleep, Bad digestion (bloating), heartburn, slow bowel movements, gas, anxiety etc etc. These have always been with me whatever my diet, in the last 3-4 weeks these have decreased at times with a Peat-style diet, or more specifically eating to affect body temperature and pulse.

    Also your facts and understanding of Peat-style eating are just plain wrong.

    Who says this? You're completely quoting out of context. Also you're doing exactly what you ranted against in your previous post!

    You're cartoon Peat-eater would be chugging OJ all day. Peat isn't very specific about his diet anywhere. A nutritionist who put me onto a Peat-style diet included NO orange juice, and NO milk. Really you have no foundations to base your attacks on.

    You're missing the main point of Peat. It is to monitor *actually measurable* things and eat to optimise those, including Pulse and Body Temperature, a range of hormone levels, amount of sleep required, extremity temperatures, and the more subjective side of how you feel (energy, anxiety etc).

    Josh Rubin who has worked very closely with Peat expressly says that Peat is against using supplements and hormones until you have fully attempted to change these "Measurables" with DIET and LIFESTYLE changes, which can take 8-12 months easily.

    It's not to eat to look better, get a six pack, or lose weight, which was always my yard-stick with Paleo/Primal (and appears to be the main marketing point of Sisson).

    It's not to become a "fat oxidiser" without any way of checking this.

    You say you lost 65 pounds - did you get your body composition done with this? How do you know it wasn't 40 pounds of fat and 25 pounds of muscle? Also I see you have put on 20+ pounds again recently? You blame "modern lifestyle" for this, why is it not to do with a rebound-response from your body giving you cravings to eat different foods to get it out of a starvation mode which it can't cope with any more??

    I think you overcame Cancer, which of course is amazing, and I wish you the best of health, and if you have found something that has worked for you, AMAZING, by all means write about it and shout from the rooftops.

    Paleo and Primal eating for 18-24 months did NOT make me better, perhaps even worse. My body temperatures when I started measuring last year (when I was down to 9.5% body fat at 185 pounds through Paleo/Primal) were so low it shocked my nutritionist. I was low 35s at times, regularly only high 35s.

    My main grievance is that you are attacking Peat, who from reading a lot of his writing, it is clear that he has spent 40+ years deep, deep in the trenches of reviewing almost endless amounts of scientific research, without a view to push (which it seems clear to me the vast majority of scientific journal-writing is corrupt), and having 1000s of people personally emailing, consulting with him and feeding back on his diet suggestions. There are also a significant subset of nutritionists around the world who follow Peat and implement largely his principles (albeit in varied ways), and who then get real-world data of hundreds of people per year and the effect it has on them.

    Your arguments are based on only seeing your results, and perhaps reading about others here.

    My nutritionist has over 400 clients per year, and most of them are on a Peat-inspired diet (although NOT "chugging OJ and Soda"), and he says the uplift in positive results he has seen in the last 3 years since moving away from his "traditional" schooling in Nutrition (undergraduate and post-graduate qualified from a serious University) has been mind-blowing.

    I don't know if it will work. I do know that it makes sense and that I trust the 2 nutritionists I have consulted with that they have seen measurable improvements in all areas with a wide range of clients from eating like this.
    Wow. That was quite the wall of text.
    1)I didn't ruin anything. I stated my pinions. I have the right to do that, no?
    2)Being accused of Bro-sci by a fan of Danny Roddy, the guy who promises, "Hair like a Fox" to insecure guys. That is rich.
    3)Did you know that Mark specifically advises against going under 50 carbs a day? Evidently not. Try reading the book next time.
    4) I was talking about the people who claim to be "eating Peat" on this forum. Nobody really knows what Peat does or doesn't recommend because he writes like Jack Kruse. (Yes, I have read his stuff.)
    5)High body temp and racing pulse as the indicators of good health are one of the main reasons I think Peat is bunk. Running efficiently is good. Running hot is missing the point.
    6)I put back on some weight that I lost during a period of inactivity coupled with stress due to taking care of my dying father. You trying to use this against me is seriously cheap.
    7)Peat, minus the fructose and lactose chugging, is just highER carb Primal. I'm glad it works for you.

  7. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timthetaco View Post
    Not paleo in general, but primal is absolutely a low carb diet. Mark Sisson's brand is all about lowering insulin (low carb) and becoming a "fat burning beast". He loves the ketones (low carb) and recommends avoiding starch and sugary fruit unless you're an athlete. In the primal food pyramid, fruits are a "moderation" food while added fats are not. Which part of this isn't low carb? I see very little difference between this and the Atkins diet.



    Also, Simon mentioned he was having issues with gas and bloating, which I'm positive is the true source of his failure on primal, since this diet doesn't account in the least for people with gut issues who are going to suffer greatly eating a mountain of fibrous vegetables at every meal.
    refer to mark's (arbitrary) carb curve and notice that 100-150 grams is what he considers "maintenance." 150g is absolutely not "low carb" dieting. maybe compared to the person who eats cereal, eggo waffles, sandwiches, as pasta on a daily basis. but not for someone who is eating whole foods. so in that sense, I suppose primal would be low-carb in comparison.

    mark also tells the world that 150-300g of carbs daily will lead to "insidious weight gain" which we all know is bullshit. I could probably guarantee that the people on this forum who are eating 150+ grams of carbs daily are probably the leanest ones here.
    I have a lot of hard miles on my body from before I realized I'm not 100% invulnerable. Now I just think I'm 75% invulnerable. -Mr. Anthony

    Give me a spouse/life-partner who I don't want to punch in the throat when she talks. -Canio6

  8. #678
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Hill View Post
    I agree - It's not Paleo that's at fault.
    Quote Originally Posted by simonb View Post
    What was, then? My diet was "perfect" from a Primal / Paleo perspective, really the only advice I had was to cut carbs to under 50 per day, from around 100-150.
    Yet another case of listening to forum advice instead of reading the book.

  9. #679
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    I see very little difference between this and the Atkins diet.
    There is a world of difference between 20-40g's of carbs and 50-150 (plus more if an athlete!). In fact, I doubt there would be so many 'I ate zero carbs so primal doesn't work' people if they had just read this book with no atkins in the back of their heads.

    I think it's kind of amazing to me that people think Primal is Atkins (or even strict paleo) because what drew me to Primal is precisely it's relatively Laissez-faire attitude compared to stuff like atkins.

  10. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonb View Post
    What was, then? My diet was "perfect" from a Primal / Paleo perspective, really the only advice I had was to cut carbs to under 50 per day, from around 100-150.

    lmao...I mean I'm a low carb luvin guy and even I recognize that defining Primal/Paleo as a sub 50g of carb diet is utter bullshit. Thats ONE way you may choose to rock paleo, but not the only way.

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