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Thread: Why does Danny Roddy recommend sugar to reduce stress/estrogen? page 66

  1. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Hill View Post


    Minus the vegetables, fish oil, nuts and daily meat eating. And with added sugar
    Mark eats sugar daily in his coffee. I choose not to. We're both Primal. Nuts are an occasional treat, not a staple for me. I don't eat lots of veggies except for condiments and teas, I eat fish but would never eat fish oil capsules. I don't eat meat daily either. Sometimes I have dinner at my favorite oyster bar.

    I really think too much has been made of the differences between Peat and Primal, (mostly the result of some individuals following their guru to some extreme lengths.) With a w.o.e. based on a lengthy set of rambling disjointed tomes, it would be easy to read into it anything you wanted to say was The Way and also say, "Because Peat said so".

    On the other side, there are a lot of Peatarians making stereotyped and just silly caricatures of what is "The Paleo/Primal Diet" as if such a monolithic thing existed. Their cartoon paleo person would be scarfing down pounds of bacon with a mountain of kale and having a steak for dessert.

    There is obviously a lot of variation in both Primal and Peat diets. And there is a lot of overlap between the two.

  2. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    How come when someone reports feeling good eating "Peatly" that is when Peat becomes synonymous with Primal, but every other mention of Peat is a dangerous "sugar diet" that is nothing like "Primal," LOL.
    Put away your six shooter for second and hear me out then.

    When someone is eating a whole foods diet that just happens to contain a larger volume of carb heavy foods because they feel better that way, there is nothing "Un-Primal" about it. Say your diet or YB's. More fruit and tubers. More dairy. Whatever floats yer boat. All good healthy whole foods. I'm happy that you have found what makes you happy. As long as you are equally respectful of my dietary choices, we all get along fine.

    When someone is mainlining sugar, coffee, drugs, booze, cigs, candy, sodas, etc. and claiming the mantle of health advisor, that is when I object.

    I really don't think Dr. Peat or anybody who is a medical doctor would condone such things either. At least I hope he wouldn't but then his writings are so vague, that if someone like Matt Stone who likes to portray himself as the anti-diet-diet guy wants to say that Dr. Peat said junk food is good for you, he could probably find a way to do it.

  3. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Put away your six shooter for second and hear me out then.

    When someone is eating a whole foods diet that just happens to contain a larger volume of carb heavy foods because they feel better that way, there is nothing "Un-Primal" about it. Say your diet or YB's. More fruit and tubers. More dairy. Whatever floats yer boat. All good healthy whole foods. I'm happy that you have found what makes you happy. As long as you are equally respectful of my dietary choices, we all get along fine.

    When someone is mainlining sugar, coffee, drugs, booze, cigs, candy, sodas, etc. and claiming the mantle of health advisor, that is when I object.

    I really don't think Dr. Peat or anybody who is a medical doctor would condone such things either. At least I hope he wouldn't but then his writings are so vague, that if someone like Matt Stone who likes to portray himself as the anti-diet-diet guy wants to say that Dr. Peat said junk food is good for you, he could probably find a way to do it.
    I agree with all of this. And I think Derp's diet is actually much healthier than it may have initially sounded. Perhaps he embellishes a bit for reactions? Either way, his latest menu is quite healthy even if he still smokes (former smoker myself, quit 7 years ago). I don't know what Matt Stone says, I have only read a few of his posts. Peat gives sound advice when taken in context, I believe.
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  4. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    I agree with all of this. And I think Derp's diet is actually much healthier than it may have initially sounded. Perhaps he embellishes a bit for reactions? Either way, his latest menu is quite healthy even if he still smokes (former smoker myself, quit 7 years ago). I don't know what Matt Stone says, I have only read a few of his posts. Peat gives sound advice when taken in context, I believe.
    Stone seems to take the attitude of, "I drink soda and eat pizza and candy and you can all go f*** yourselves if you don't like it. SO THERE!" It's really kind of juvenile. It's the Neeener, neeener, neeener! attitude that appeals to some people. Derp, as much as I adore him, can be bratty that way too. And yes, he probably does get off on the shock value and may embelish.

    There are some people who tend to take things to extremes who have done bad things to their bodies over the years with the diet of the month club and all kinds of other stuff like HcG, hydroxycut, etc. all in a frantic effort to have that elusive fitness model "look". To those people, Matt Stone delivers a healthy dose of "Screw this. I'm just going to eat for once." For that, I think he is valuable.

    Then, there are always people who will take it to the other extreme and say that if relaxing your orthorexia enough to not freak out about a little dish of ice cream is a good thing, then eating it by the gallon all the time must be even better.

    Finding a middle ground would be nice.

  5. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post

    I really don't think Dr. Peat or anybody who is a medical doctor would condone such things either. At least I hope he wouldn't but then his writings are so vague, that if someone like Matt Stone who likes to portray himself as the anti-diet-diet guy wants to say that Dr. Peat said junk food is good for you, he could probably find a way to do it.
    Just wanted to point out that Peat is not a medical doctor...

    Concerning my background, I have a Ph.D. in Biology from the University of Oregon, with specialization in physiology. The schools I have taught at include: the University of Oregon, Urbana College, Montana State University, National College of Naturopathic Medicine, Universidad Veracruzana, the Universidad Autonoma del Estado de Mexico, and Blake College. I also conduct private nutritional counseling. - Ray Peat

  6. #656
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    My first post - and it's an attack!

    Paleobird - I really think you have ruined this thread. Main point is Danny has written very succinctly with his explanations of the science that his ideas are based on, you have written apparent statements of fact with no back-up to the science, or what Body Building forums would call "Bro Science". Irrespective of who is right, your arguments have not been well formed here, and as an impartial observer, Danny crushed the debate between you.

    I am not a Peat-er to start things off. I actually found this thread in doing some research about Peat-style eating. I'm NOT a mega proponent of it, so don't dive at me like I'm just defending for the sake of it!

    As a background, Primal/Paleo didn't work for me - I lost fat (I had full body composition tests every 6-8 weeks), got more toned (increase muscle mass slightly), LOOKED better, FELT CRAP.

    I'm young and exercise a fair amount.

    Poor Sleep, Bad digestion (bloating), heartburn, slow bowel movements, gas, anxiety etc etc. These have always been with me whatever my diet, in the last 3-4 weeks these have decreased at times with a Peat-style diet, or more specifically eating to affect body temperature and pulse.

    Also your facts and understanding of Peat-style eating are just plain wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    When someone is mainlining sugar, coffee, drugs, booze, cigs, candy, sodas, etc. and claiming the mantle of health advisor, that is when I object.
    Who says this? You're completely quoting out of context. Also you're doing exactly what you ranted against in your previous post!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird
    Their cartoon paleo person would be scarfing down pounds of bacon with a mountain of kale and having a steak for dessert.
    You're cartoon Peat-eater would be chugging OJ all day. Peat isn't very specific about his diet anywhere. A nutritionist who put me onto a Peat-style diet included NO orange juice, and NO milk. Really you have no foundations to base your attacks on.

    You're missing the main point of Peat. It is to monitor *actually measurable* things and eat to optimise those, including Pulse and Body Temperature, a range of hormone levels, amount of sleep required, extremity temperatures, and the more subjective side of how you feel (energy, anxiety etc).

    Josh Rubin who has worked very closely with Peat expressly says that Peat is against using supplements and hormones until you have fully attempted to change these "Measurables" with DIET and LIFESTYLE changes, which can take 8-12 months easily.

    It's not to eat to look better, get a six pack, or lose weight, which was always my yard-stick with Paleo/Primal (and appears to be the main marketing point of Sisson).

    It's not to become a "fat oxidiser" without any way of checking this.

    You say you lost 65 pounds - did you get your body composition done with this? How do you know it wasn't 40 pounds of fat and 25 pounds of muscle? Also I see you have put on 20+ pounds again recently? You blame "modern lifestyle" for this, why is it not to do with a rebound-response from your body giving you cravings to eat different foods to get it out of a starvation mode which it can't cope with any more??

    I think you overcame Cancer, which of course is amazing, and I wish you the best of health, and if you have found something that has worked for you, AMAZING, by all means write about it and shout from the rooftops.

    Paleo and Primal eating for 18-24 months did NOT make me better, perhaps even worse. My body temperatures when I started measuring last year (when I was down to 9.5% body fat at 185 pounds through Paleo/Primal) were so low it shocked my nutritionist. I was low 35s at times, regularly only high 35s.

    My main grievance is that you are attacking Peat, who from reading a lot of his writing, it is clear that he has spent 40+ years deep, deep in the trenches of reviewing almost endless amounts of scientific research, without a view to push (which it seems clear to me the vast majority of scientific journal-writing is corrupt), and having 1000s of people personally emailing, consulting with him and feeding back on his diet suggestions. There are also a significant subset of nutritionists around the world who follow Peat and implement largely his principles (albeit in varied ways), and who then get real-world data of hundreds of people per year and the effect it has on them.

    Your arguments are based on only seeing your results, and perhaps reading about others here.

    My nutritionist has over 400 clients per year, and most of them are on a Peat-inspired diet (although NOT "chugging OJ and Soda"), and he says the uplift in positive results he has seen in the last 3 years since moving away from his "traditional" schooling in Nutrition (undergraduate and post-graduate qualified from a serious University) has been mind-blowing.

    I don't know if it will work. I do know that it makes sense and that I trust the 2 nutritionists I have consulted with that they have seen measurable improvements in all areas with a wide range of clients from eating like this.

  7. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonb View Post
    My first post - and it's an attack!

    Paleobird - I really think you have ruined this thread.....
    This is like complaining someone threw trash in my garbage....

  8. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonb View Post
    I am not a Peat-er to start things off.
    The rest of what you say in this post would suggest otherwise.

    Originally Posted by Paleobird
    When someone is mainlining sugar, coffee, drugs, booze, cigs, candy, sodas, etc. and claiming the mantle of health advisor, that is when I object.
    Who says this? You're completely quoting out of context. Also you're doing exactly what you ranted against in your previous post!
    LOL, yes she's referring to a specific outspoken person. Stick around a while.

  9. #659
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    This is the thread that never ends...

    Simon, I'm with you, but don't bother. Some people have made up their minds and are only interested in blanket slamming Peat's research.

    My personal opinion is that diet is completely individual and you have to base it on how you feel. I felt like shit chowing down on "the most nutrient dense foods" like liver and (puke) kale. But "the science" told me it was right, so who was I to argue? Incidentally, I feel amazing eating Peat-style, and as whacky as his ideas are, the more of them I incorporate, the better I feel. So I don't really care what people think.

    FYI, there is a Peat-specific thread for those of us who incorporate some of his suggestions. Welcome to the forum!
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  10. #660
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonb View Post
    You're cartoon Peat-eater would be chugging OJ all day. Peat isn't very specific about his diet anywhere. A nutritionist who put me onto a Peat-style diet included NO orange juice, and NO milk. Really you have no foundations to base your attacks on.
    Dude, the people coming in here promoting peat keep posting keys to his diet with OJ listed as the number one most important fruit (including writings from Peat about why he loves OJ) and Dairy listed as half the calories saying they chug milk. It's not like this milk and OJ thing are coming from nowhere! And coke was specifically listed as a 'sugar' at the top of one of the charts. I know some of you aren't actually doing that stuff (like YogaBare) but as a person who is getting Peat entirely from this thread, this is what I'm seeing. The rest sounds pretty primal, so I think people are naturally going to talk about the differences.

    I don't care if people want to eat like this, different strokes and all that, but this is what many people are saying is 'Peat' so if people counter it or say they don't like Peat because of that (or that weird iron thing) it's because that's what people are telling us that Peat is all about. They are also popping up to say people are just jealous they can't mainline sugar, which may or may not be a joke I haven't been here long enough to know everyone's personality.
    Last edited by lea; 08-05-2013 at 10:55 AM.

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