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  1. #401
    bopfer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    People confuse low-carb with Paleo.

    Here's the problem: Paleo is regarded as an extreme lifestyle by CW-enthusiasts. Because Paleo is labeled as extreme - even though it ISN'T - it attracts extremists. Now, Paleo says that the 500+g of carbohydrate from soda, wheat, juice, crackers and cookies Americans eat DAILY is bad, and we should be eating real food and way less carbs. Let's use the number 150g arbitrarily. Now, in reality, since we're not supposed to DRINK calories and only EAT calories, 150g of carbohydrate a day is quite a bit. That's almost 2 lbs of sweet potatoes a day, or 6 apples every single day. That's pretty solid for the average person. It's a recommendation, not a rule. Now, because Paleo is populated with extremists due to the media's stigma, you have people thinking because low is good, NO must be even better! And before you know it, you have human beings promoting becoming carnivores when we're clearly omnivores.

    Paleo isn't low-carb. Paleo IS real food! That is the whole point. It's been hijacked by people to suit their own agenda. Real Paleo is "If you can't pick it or kill it, don't eat it." If you want to eat nothing but apples and nuts, that is 100% Paleo and just as Paleo as steak and spinach. Paleo itself is perfect, it's the people that screw it up.

    If "eating real food" is the real paradigm shift, then "Paleo" is the real paradigm shift.
    Good post. But, I think Paleo is too restrictive to be anything but a fad. Hopefully, it will at least be the booster that gets people into real food. I would put foods like properly fermented sourdough bread or traditionally made ice cream in the real food category.

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by bopfer View Post
    Good post. But, I think Paleo is too restrictive to be anything but a fad. Hopefully, it will at least be the booster that gets people into real food. I would put foods like properly fermented sourdough bread or traditionally made ice cream in the real food category.
    Thats your opinion....but, I don't find much validity to it.

  3. #403
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    If someone were to rename "paleo" to something more PC, and brand it as the diet that allows everything in the world except processed foods, and not talk so much about F-P-C and calories, it would take off and be very popular--except with the food manufacturer's and the government. There are a lot of big groups that really, really want us all eating wheat, corn, vegetable oil, MSG, and artificial sweeteners.

    I've never been a conspiracy theorist, but a lot of corporations stand to lose if many more people are eating paleo.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by bopfer View Post
    Good post. But, I think Paleo is too restrictive to be anything but a fad. Hopefully, it will at least be the booster that gets people into real food. I would put foods like properly fermented sourdough bread or traditionally made ice cream in the real food category.
    I don't understand how you can say Paleo is restrictive.

    There are millions of species of animals in the world.

    There are millions of species of plants in the world.

    Care to tell me what a million squared is?

    It's one trillion.

    There are then countless species of nuts and plenty dairy options to explore. There are literally trillions of food combinations out there - for all intents and purposes, an infinity of combinations since it will be impossible for any person to explore them all - and you're saying it's restrictive? Why? Because you can't eat oatmeal, crackers, soda and other crap that didn't exist until a few centuries ago? We survived for 2.5 million years on this "restrictive diet" and somehow not eating peanut butter and jelly makes it difficult?

    I don't follow.

    It's not a fad. People's iterations are fads. Real food can never be a fad, and if you think Paleo is a fad diet then you don't know what Paleo actually is.







    Those dinners, my friends, are not fads. They are staples of mankind and will never grow old.

    BTW, I'm truly sorry for torturing you all with those pictures!!!
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 07-11-2012 at 01:48 PM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    I don't understand how you can say Paleo is restrictive.

    There are millions of species of animals in the world.

    There are millions of species of plants in the world.

    Care to tell me what a million squared is?

    It's one trillion.

    There are then countless species of nuts and plenty dairy options to explore. There are literally trillions of food combinations out there - for all intents and purposes, an infinity of combinations since it will be impossible for any person to explore them all - and you're saying it's restrictive? Why? Because you can't eat oatmeal, crackers, soda and other crap that didn't exist until a few centuries ago? We survived for 2.5 million years on this "restrictive diet" and somehow not eating peanut butter and jelly makes it difficult?

    I don't follow.

    It's not a fad. People's iterations are fads. Real food can never be a fad, and if you think Paleo is a fad diet then you don't know what Paleo actually is.
    Well said. I don't agree with a fair amount of what you post, but I agree with 100% of this. And I call shenanigans in advance on anyone who doesn't.

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    I don't understand how you can say Paleo is restrictive.
    It's not an issue of how many foods you can eat on a strict Paleo diet. It's the foods you can't that have no convincing evidence they are bad. The mass is never going to go for it. Vegans can make your same argument with the millions of plants and fruits out there. There's currently no reason to go beyond 100 or so years back. 10,000 years is just ridiculous and will never catch on with anything more than a niche group of people. Paleo, Vegan, etc are all just responses to the last 100 years of crappy food inventions.

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luce View Post
    I've read enough nosense. I had a bad hyperparathyroidsm case during haemodialysis, it happens because dialysis filters are not as great removing bigger molecules -phosphates and some stuff- as they are clearing smaller ones -potasium, urea (thankful for it given the downsides of low/high potasium). If membranes were permeable enough to remove more phosphates -bigger pores, so to speak- patients would become deprived of essential nutrients hormones and aminoacids.
    If anyone ever finds there are phosphates/calcium imbalances and bad PTH run to a doctor because it surely does not depend on your diet. It means you seriously screwed yourself somehow. I got relevant PTH mess after seven years of dialysis with phosphates doubling the high end of normal range (1 to 1 phosphates to calcium rates). My nomea are great, tua is to primato. Be' happens, be' cool, Have fun.
    Myself and those I've coached, have completely suppressed PTH by consuming enough calcium and vitamin D. The photo of my lab work is on my Facebook page.

    I'm not sure if you're suggesting that PTH is only relevant to those on dialysis—it isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    I'm wondering what Ray or Danny would suggest for someone who continues to have hypothyroid symptoms (extremely low body temps, cold hands/feet, extreme sensitivity to cold, thinning hair, low metabolism, etc..) when eating high levels of salt and sugar don't seem to make a difference in these symptoms.
    Calcium, salt, sugar, enough protein, and vitamin A usually does the trick.

    Sometimes experimenting with thyroid is warranted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Belforte View Post
    Danny Roddy

    Why did you go 0 carb for 2 years?
    I had good results with low-carb and wanted to take it to the far end of the spectrum. Wasn't so great.

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by bopfer View Post
    It's not an issue of how many foods you can eat on a strict Paleo diet. It's the foods you can't that have no convincing evidence they are bad. The mass is never going to go for it. Vegans can make your same argument with the millions of plants and fruits out there. There's currently no reason to go beyond 100 or so years back. 10,000 years is just ridiculous and will never catch on with anything more than a niche group of people. Paleo, Vegan, etc are all just responses to the last 100 years of crappy food inventions.
    I've always thought the worst thing about Paleo (or Primal) is the name. When people ask how I lost weight, I never say "eating a paleo diet", that just leads to exhaustive explanations. I have told lots of people to google 'paleo', but I usually just say, "I quit eating processed foods, especially flour, vegetable oil, and sugar"

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by bopfer View Post
    Paleo, Vegan, etc are all just responses to the last 100 years of crappy food inventions.
    I think there's a growing awareness that foods with myriad ingredients contain a bunch of stuff that isn't food. And eating actual food is better an healthier.

    Thanks for the links on the salt you gave me. Are there any links that don't trace back to Ray Peat?

    From what I can tell, salt is 'bad' for you because it increases your blood pressure. I've seen my blood pressure go from 160/100 to 120/80 with the switch to primal, so I have no concerns on that score.

    What I do want to find out is what the positive effects of salt on the body are.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
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  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Thanks for the links on the salt you gave me. Are there any links that don't trace back to Ray Peat?
    Chris Kresser did a pretty good series on it back in April: Shaking Up the Salt Myth: Healthy Salt Recommendations

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