Why does Danny Roddy recommend sugar to reduce stress/estrogen? page 14

[sbhikes]

I'll check out the thread. One thing that jumped out at me is the iodine. While it is no doubt effective in helping the thyroid to function I've read quite a bit indicating caution should be used. Particularly in cases when hypo is caused by hashimotos (the majority of cases by far) as it could be quite hazardous. I'm getting a bit more into this subject as of late, so I'll be reading up some more.

Hey Neckhammer, I find the Iodine thread to be a little over the top, shall we say. However, way before that thread even turned up, I was taking iodine. I've been taking it ever since I started low carb. I've taken as much as 50mg a day but now I just take 12.5 mg of Iodoral, which is half KI and half I.

I am moderate to low carb and I lean more toward eating a lot of meat rather than a lot of starch or vegetables. I don't eat much fruit but once in a while I do, especially dates. I have always tested low on my thyroid but never low enough for treatment. I absolutely believe that eating low and moderate carb primal has completely cured me of any tendency toward low thyroid or a slow metabolism. I have a normal appetite now. I can eat huge meals and if it was too much, I just don't eat at the next meal time. I never gain any weight. I'm not super willowy thin, but I'm strong and I'm not freezing all the time or sluggish or any of the other symptoms mentioned. I burn up all night long most of the time. I have LOTS of energy.

Did the iodine help? Probably. I don't really know. But it certainly did not hurt me one bit. Neither has low carb or low-ish carbs. I don't have to tell a bunch of bullshit stories about macro-nutrients to make myself feel better about my choices, either. The basic Primal Blueprint, carb-curve, exercise program and all, has worked beyond my wildest dreams.

[Wheat&Pufas]

I recently found out that sucrose is not just white table sugar from the sugarcane plant. Sucrose is in many foods. And it's not bleached.

Josh Rubin (a peat-a-tarian) says that, from his research, he found that fructose is the primary source of fuel for a developing embryo, so how can it be bad for us? I find that very interesting. If this is true, we should not be ignoring it.

He talks about how Lustig and Mercola say that sucrose causes diabetes and other diseases but the research is on "ding dings, dong dongs, pop-tarts, and twinkies", and really they should be looking at the tons of other ingredients in those foods like the PUFA oils and dyes, and colorings. Talk about bad research, I think he's right, if they are really basing their conclusions from that research then that is ridiculous.

He also says that gluconeogenesis is the bodies catabolic adaptation response to having low glycogen stored in the liver.

Did you know that too much protein gives you an insulin response too?

Peat says that the potassium in OJ stops the insulin response. Too much muscle meats can be inflammatory because of tryptophan and also they are high in iron so drink some tea or coffee with meats to inhibit iron absorption.

After a lifetime of substantial PUFA doses almost daily, and wheat daily, it will take a lot of effort to get it out of the tissue.

[sandokan2112]

- BUT -

My question is, if this is all true, HOW DO YOU LOSE BODY FAT ON RAY PEAT'S DIET? It seems like the diet is engineered to keep you from using your stored fat as fuel. That's all well and good if you're highly active and very lean, but the overwhelming majority of us aren't. If I wanted to adopt a Ray Peat-style diet, how can I safely burn stored fat as fuel?

Good question, i would like to know the answer to this.

[sandokan2112]

I recommend sugar (fruit) and 80-100 g of protein per day for lowering estrogen because:

- The liver deactivates 100% of the estrogen in the body and does so when it is properly "energized" with carbohydrate (glycogen). Low glycogen levels decrease thyroid performance (the liver converts a large amount of T4>T3) and decreases the ability of the liver to remove estrogen.

- A sugar based metabolism decreases the release of fat from tissue (adrenaline and several other hormones release fat as a predominant fuel when we're stressed). Breakdown products from these fats (prostaglandins) activate aromatase (creates new estrogen)

- An ample amount of carbohydrate in the diet restrains the release of adaptive "stress" hormones, predominantly cortisol, which also activates aromatase.

-Danny

Danny, are you recommending that the bulk of the carbs come from fruit sugar?

The bulk of my carbs come from potatoes and white rice, the rest comes from vegetables, fruit (moderation), dairy, and plain sugar (in my coffee)

My question is, do we need to consume a copius amount of fruit esp. fruit juices to replenish our livers glycogen stores? My understanding is that the carbs from potatoes or white rice would have the same effect, but without comprimising the liver.

It is my understanding that consuming TOO much fructose in the diet esp. in concentrated fruit juice form, and to some extent from TOO much fruit in general, places too much stress on the liver e.g. fatty liver, high triglyceride levels.

Fructose goes straight to the liver bypassing all other digestive processes that other sugars go thru. I dont believe this is too much of a problem with a VERY active person, but i believe one needs to be carefull about how much fructose they are storing in their liver.

[ChocoTaco369]

Danny, are you recommending that the bulk of the carbs come from fruit sugar?

The bulk of my carbs come from potatoes and white rice, the rest comes from vegetables, fruit (moderation), dairy, and plain sugar (in my coffee)

My question is, do we need to consume a copius amount of fruit esp. fruit juices to replenish our livers glycogen stores? My understanding is that the carbs from potatoes or white rice would have the same effect, but without comprimising the liver.

It is my understanding that consuming TOO much fructose in the diet esp. in concentrated fruit juice form, and to some extent from TOO much fruit in general, places too much stress on the liver e.g. fatty liver, high triglyceride levels.

Fructose goes straight to the liver bypassing all other digestive processes that other sugars go thru. I dont believe this is too much of a problem with a VERY active person, but i believe one needs to be carefull about how much fructose they are storing in their liver.

I never bought into the whole fructose-fear thing. Yes, it's probably not good when it's isolated refined sugar, but I don't see how starch is healthier than fruit. If anything, fruit is a lot easier on the body because it doesn't cause the massive insulin and blood sugar surge that starch does. Fruit is the only thing in nature that WANTS you to eat it - that's how it reproduces. You eat the fruit, walk somewhere else and poop out the seeds. If nothing ate it, the species would die out. IMO, that would make it one of the safest sources of calories in nature,

Just my opinion. I see no reason to avoid REAL fruit sugar. I'm still not going to use white sugar, though. There is essentially ZERO nutrition.

Substantial differences in total antioxidant content of different sweeteners were found. Refined sugar, corn syrup, and agave nectar contained minimal antioxidant activity (<0.01 mmol FRAP/100 g); raw cane sugar had a higher FRAP (0.1 mmol/100 g). Dark and blackstrap molasses had the highest FRAP (4.6 to 4.9 mmol/100 g), while maple syrup, brown sugar, and honey showed intermediate antioxidant capacity (0.2 to 0.7 mmol FRAP/100 g). Based on an average intake of 130 g/day refined sugars and the antioxidant activity measured in typical diets, substituting alternative sweeteners could increase antioxidant intake an average of 2.6 mmol/day, similar to the amount found in a serving of berries or nuts.

Total antioxidant content of alternatives to... [J Am Diet Assoc. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

I'm always consistently shocked by the amount of nutrition in blackstrap molasses, though.



If it's okay to eat butter by the slice, is it okay to eat molasses by the spoonful? According to Fitday, it's more bang for your buck. And I believe that's regular molasses, not blackstrap. Blackstrap is even more nutrient-dense!

[Neckhammer]

Hey Neckhammer, I find the Iodine thread to be a little over the top, shall we say. However, way before that thread even turned up, I was taking iodine. I've been taking it ever since I started low carb. I've taken as much as 50mg a day but now I just take 12.5 mg of Iodoral, which is half KI and half I.

I am moderate to low carb and I lean more toward eating a lot of meat rather than a lot of starch or vegetables. I don't eat much fruit but once in a while I do, especially dates. I have always tested low on my thyroid but never low enough for treatment. I absolutely believe that eating low and moderate carb primal has completely cured me of any tendency toward low thyroid or a slow metabolism. I have a normal appetite now. I can eat huge meals and if it was too much, I just don't eat at the next meal time. I never gain any weight. I'm not super willowy thin, but I'm strong and I'm not freezing all the time or sluggish or any of the other symptoms mentioned. I burn up all night long most of the time. I have LOTS of energy.

Did the iodine help? Probably. I don't really know. But it certainly did not hurt me one bit. Neither has low carb or low-ish carbs. I don't have to tell a bunch of bullshit stories about macro-nutrients to make myself feel better about my choices, either. The basic Primal Blueprint, carb-curve, exercise program and all, has worked beyond my wildest dreams.

Oh, I completely agree. I have never had any hypo symptoms from LC. I still eat low carb 6/7 days. The only reason I "carb load" is cause I have a cheat day more than most on here do (or admit to ). I was never more than 10lb from ideal weight nor did I have health problems, so I'm in it purely for general health and continued wellness. I have seen the Primal program work for people with significant health issues though, and continue to recommend it without reservation. I have read from a variety of sources how low carb primal style eating helps to heal the gut and actually CURE hypothyroid (these are probably usually the hashimoto types)...and in various books they do outline over 20 variations of hypo, so it is obvious to me that this is a complicated subject.

[Forgotmylastusername]

Oh, I completely agree. I have never had any hypo symptoms from LC. I still eat low carb 6/7 days. The only reason I "carb load" is cause I have a cheat day more than most on here do (or admit to ).

I could be wrong, but I honestly believe that's what keeps a lot of low-carbers afloat. I was solidly low/almost zero carb for about 7 months without ANY cheats from what I can remember. Looking back I probably would of done better if I had a weekly pizza binge but there's no way to know for sure.

[Apex Predator]

I could be wrong, but I honestly believe that's what keeps a lot of low-carbers afloat. I was solidly low/almost zero carb for about 7 months without ANY cheats from what I can remember. Looking back I probably would of done better if I had a weekly pizza binge but there's no way to know for sure.

+1

[YogaBare]

I've been reading the thread throughout, and all the new / conflicting information is fascinating.

While I don't always agree with Choco's delivery (on this thread), I find his info pretty enlightening, and I think he makes a brilliant point here:

the diabetes/sugar theory suffers from the same flaws as the saturated fat-cholesterol/heart disease theory[/U]

I'm really appreciating the opportunity to have my understandings challenged, so thanks Danny (and everyone else) for entering into the discussion.

Hi! How are ya?

Lol

[cori93437]

If it's okay to eat butter by the slice, is it okay to eat molasses by the spoonful? According to Fitday, it's more bang for your buck. And I believe that's regular molasses, not blackstrap. Blackstrap is even more nutrient-dense!

Better yet try mixing the molasses with softened butter into a paste... completely sinfully delicious.
...was raised on Blackstrap... but some people find the taste of it objectionable I understand.