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Thread: Starting Strength/LeanGains/protein supplements page

  1. #1
    zilog's Avatar
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    Starting Strength/LeanGains/protein supplements

    Starting Strength (which I'm already doing) seems like a good fit with a primal version of LeanGains so I'm thinking about doing them together. I have naturally fallen into a routine which is very similar to one of the LG protocols - workout at noon (at work gym) followed by first meal, then second (last meal) at about 6-7 and fast the rest of time.

    I don't currently have a meal between these two (which is what LG recommends) but since I need more protein now that I'm doing SS I was thinking of having a protein shake with milk/fruit/etc as a meal around 3-4. I know Rippetoe advocates a gallon of milk a day but I think, logistically, this would be impossible for me to do and I think it would be easier for me to use protein supplements. I will probably start by using BCAA pre-workout as well since I always work out fasted.

    Haven't worked out my macros yet with respect to what I need and what I am currently getting from my regular diet (will sit down this weekend with paper & pencil and do that) but I suspect I am short on protein (esp. for SS) and overall calories. I know protein supplements are not considered primal (and I would rather not take them) but I want to maximise my gains whilst doing SS so would be happy to take them for the 6-12 months I envisage doing it.

    Any thoughts or similar situations/experiences?

  2. #2
    vrodmuscle's Avatar
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    I do IF with a 20 hour window, mostly primal diet. I Do a 5 day split. IF is very effective, sometime I am concerned I am under eating in fact. I dont follow my macros or count calories, I simply eat in that four hour window, with maximum nutrition.
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  3. #3
    Apex Predator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zilog View Post
    Starting Strength (which I'm already doing) seems like a good fit with a primal version of LeanGains so I'm thinking about doing them together. I have naturally fallen into a routine which is very similar to one of the LG protocols - workout at noon (at work gym) followed by first meal, then second (last meal) at about 6-7 and fast the rest of time.

    I don't currently have a meal between these two (which is what LG recommends) but since I need more protein now that I'm doing SS I was thinking of having a protein shake with milk/fruit/etc as a meal around 3-4. I know Rippetoe advocates a gallon of milk a day but I think, logistically, this would be impossible for me to do and I think it would be easier for me to use protein supplements. I will probably start by using BCAA pre-workout as well since I always work out fasted.

    Haven't worked out my macros yet with respect to what I need and what I am currently getting from my regular diet (will sit down this weekend with paper & pencil and do that) but I suspect I am short on protein (esp. for SS) and overall calories. I know protein supplements are not considered primal (and I would rather not take them) but I want to maximise my gains whilst doing SS so would be happy to take them for the 6-12 months I envisage doing it.

    Any thoughts or similar situations/experiences?
    Leangains and SS have different, even somewhat opposite goals. It can work at least to a degree, but you'll need to pound some insane calories in that window, and your gains will be slower and less.

  4. #4
    zilog's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input guys.

    Leangains and SS have different, even somewhat opposite goals.
    Yes, this was my initial thought. I have done a lot of reading around on the subject - I found the site rippedbody.jp particuarly helpful as the author has a lot of articles discussing various options. He says that LG is perfect for a cut/slow-bulk which is exactly what I want as, although I am of above average fitness generally and about 15% BF, I am very much a beginner lifter. The author of that site does concede though that whilst SS if useful in this situation it is not optimal. I have already started SS though and am enjoying it - and hitting new PRs every session - but am open to other options if they will pair better with LG.

    IF is very effective, sometime I am concerned I am under eating in fact.
    Yes, this is exactly my worry. The lifting is starting to impede on my sprinting & other activities, so I definitely want to make sure that I'm eating enough calories generally & protein specificially (to maximise recovery)

    Any comments on the importance of protein supplements/BCAAs?

    ETA:
    but you'll need to pound some insane calories in that window
    just thought I'd add: I'm not IFing specifically to lose fat, it's just happened naturally as a result of my primal diet, i.e. I just don't feel hungry enough to eat before 12noon or after 8pm. I've got an 8-hr window, double that of vrodmuscle above ^^^, so I can't foresee any problems in being able to eat enough calories in that time.
    Last edited by zilog; 06-29-2012 at 09:30 AM.

  5. #5
    federkeil's Avatar
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    I've done LG style fasting and macro rotation combined with SS twice. Both times for about 4 months and my results were just fine. I hit a new squat PR in April lifting this way. Yes, you will put on more fat this way than you would doing a LG style lifting program. That's due to the fact that you will need to eat more overall to maintain linear gains on your lifts, and because 5 reps won't work your fat stores like RPT does.

    Last year I went from 255 to 275 (4 months). This year I went from 250 to 285 [5 months](I had an extended out of country trip that combined itself with a nasty bout of food poisoning that actually dropped me all the way down to 230lbs at my worst). Last year I was measured at 12% fat at 275lbs (calipers) and this year I was 14% fat at 285lbs (calipers). In May I switched to a truer LG lifting program and cleaned up my diet some.

    I started fasting for that same reason, I usually wouldn't be hungry till 10/11am anyway so I started lifting ~9am and eating after. As it stands now, if I start my lift 12 hours after I last ate that automatically gives me a 14 hour fast. I usually hit 14hours before I start my lift because I'm done eating by 7pm and lift ~9am.

    BCAA's are there to prevent any muscle catabolisim during the lift. They get proteins into your blood stream for your muscles to use right away, either in repair or to break down into glucose for fuel. With the fast you'll have minimal free energy (glucose or AA's) for your body to use without stealing them from somewhere. Why they're advised over a small protein shake is that they won't bring your body out of its fasting state.
    I didn't like the rules you gave me, so I made some of my own.

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  6. #6
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    are you trying to gain weight or lose weight? The leangains protocol for a slow bulk would be a calorie surplus of about 10-20% followed by a rest day with a caloric deficit of 10-20%. However if you aren't already lean then doing a Recomp would be more appropriate. Any training protocol will work with leangains as long as you decide what your goal is (cut, bulk, recomp) This will determine your calorie needs. If you are serious about doing leangains right then you NEED to calculate your calories and macros. Once you get a sense of how much is what and what your goals are then you can loosen up on the counting.
    Rippedbody.jp is a useful place to work out the details.
    Being primal is about lifestyle and food quality. Leangains is a protocol that can work in that framework but it takes a full understanding of all the variables to really make it work.

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    zilog's Avatar
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    would like to gain weight overall but lose a bit of body fat at the same time, I guess that's a recomp? rippedbody looks like a great site with a lot of info!

  8. #8
    zilog's Avatar
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    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    I've been reading on rippedbody.jp about how to calculate your macros. Protein is based on lean body mass which is simple enough. Fat however, seems to be an arbitrary 30g on training days and 60g on recovery days with the rest of the calorific needs made up of carbs. I've got no objection to the carbs - I eat a lot of them already especially on active days. But the amount of fat seems quite low wrt primal. How are people rationalizing their LG macros with the primal diet?

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