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Thread: So much for "you can't milk a wild animal" ... page

  1. #1
    Lewis's Avatar
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    So much for "you can't milk a wild animal" ...

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    "Whenever a buck killed a buffalo calf," he said, "the squaw rushed up and split the calf open. She scooped every bit of the milk out of its stomach just as quickly as she could and gave it to the children. It was the sweetest stuff I ever tasted, and was thick like our gelatin."
    Comanche Captives

    One might wonder whether this was this just a food for children.

    Apparently not:

    Carnoviste jumped down, cut teh calf's throat, cut it open, plunged his knife into its stomach, got out the soured milk contents, and ate that nasty stuff with a relish that was sickening to see.
    Nine Years Among the Indians, 1870-1879: The Story of the Captivity and Life ... - Herman Lehmann - Google Books

    It's quite logical when one thinks about it. Cheese is milk that has been soured with rennet taken from a calf's stomach (although these days I believe it's often genetically engineered plant-extract to please the vegetarians that's used). Whether curds are made inside a calf's stomach or in a cheese trough, it's the same thing. I suppose the idea for making cheese originally arose from existing knowledge about the edible nature of the contents of the stomachs of unweaned animals.

    The two passages above are excerpted from accounts about child captives among the Plains Indians. However, if the Plains Indians did this, there seems to be no valid reason for thinking that other hunting cultures would not have.

    To be honest it surprises me that while the Paleo Diet has arisen in the U.S., its proponents are evidently unaware of what's described in ethnographic sources about, of all people, North American Indians. This particular issue isn't the first time I've noticed this.

    I think these descriptions tend to confirm Mark's judgment that dairy products are a "gray area".

    There still remain problems with contemporary dairy products, such as estrone sulfate in the milk, owing to farmers unnaturally artificially inseminating their cows within a short time after birth, so that they give milk all year round. Then there's the excessive quantity of calcium delivered by dairy products in modern magnesium-depeleted diets.

    Over and above that I do think that dairy products are a major problem for another unfortunate reason. It's telling that the most common food sensitivities seem to be wheat and dairy. However, I suspect the wrong conclusions have often been jumped to. It's probably less the lactose that's a problem -- and where it is the answer there is well-aged cheese or fully-fermented yoghurt -- but more the casein. And here it seems to me people need to take the research Keith Woodford's has collected on A1 and A2 bovine casein more seriously. Brief summary here:

    March 2009

    Woodford has referred to some pretty convincing data, such as the Russians finding BCM7 in the urine of autistic children, and the rodents, genetically susceptible to type 1 diabetes, who developed it when fed A1 casein but not when fed A2 casein.

    Unfortunately, while the Australians and New Zealanders are very up-to-date and informed on this issue and look for A2 products, which are fairly widely available down under, it seems to have passed the rest of us by.

    So I'm not saying that dairy products cannot be, and are not, a problem.

    But there's always goat's cheese -- chèvre -- or sheep's cheese.

    And in fine, if Plains Indians -- and doubtless other hunting peoples going back as far as you like -- could eat the natural cheese from a bison calf's stomach, then I see no reason why we cannot enjoy cheese or yoghurt in moderation now and then.
    Last edited by Lewis; 06-26-2012 at 09:57 AM.

  2. #2
    isbolick's Avatar
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    Ok, that's just nasty.

    So, about the cheese...why? I mean, is there a physiological reason to eat cheese or just an "I like it" reason? I respect either, just curious.

  3. #3
    Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by isbolick View Post
    Ok, that's just nasty.

    So, about the cheese...why? I mean, is there a physiological reason to eat cheese or just an "I like it" reason? I respect either, just curious.
    No reason to eat it. Just maybe no reason not to.

    And posted because I thought it was interesting in itself as a description of a food practice by a hunting people that (obviously) wouldn't be expected by modern people separated from that environment.

    Talking of the stomach-contents of a prey animal, I was interested once to find a description of Bushmen in South West Africa filtering stomach contents through twigs to collect the fluid and saying to a South African anthropologist that "the water" -- it was green -- was good for a hunter. I wondered if it was just that water was scarce in that environment, or whether the liquid would perhaps have some electrolytes in it.

  4. #4
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    That...was...awesome. DIY cheese, animal-style. I have native American Ancestry, but only like 1/16th, so this means nothing personally. But it's still AWESOME.


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    Herding goat and sheep was an easy option. There's obviously more energy easily available from milking than from killing, so why not?
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

  6. #6
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    But if you think about it, the overall quantity of milk that provided to a group must have been incredibly small. Dairy, like honey, would have been a treat, not a staple of the diet.
    Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

    http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

  7. #7
    paleo-bunny's Avatar
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    I've thought about it and I can't see what your argument is. Please explain.
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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