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Thread: Calling any recovered EDs - I need som help with binge-fast-binge cycle page 4

  1. #31
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    Thanks Bestbetter for your thoughtful response. Part of clearing the binging is going to have to be tactics to outmanoevre the negative thinking, to be prepared. I will defintely take on board your helful suggestions.
    Last edited by VacillateWildly; 06-25-2012 at 08:54 PM.

  2. #32
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    I will add here that I have been sober in AA for almost 10 years, this is no mean feat. Of course thers is no discipline involved, jsut surrender. I was dying from alcoholism and wat totally incapable of stropping drinking for more than a few days. Then I went to an AA meeting and I haven't picked up a drink since that day. My children have never see me drink, my husband has not had a drunk wife for 10 years.

    Anorexia, like alcoholism, is a mental illness and is not about food. Alcoholism is about not being able to live life on life's terms, and anorexia (for me) is about control. My weight and food obsession is a symptom of the illness. Reading a book and not having a binge for 3 weeks is great if it works, but I need more than that because this illness is life threatening and I don't want to die.

    I do not need to discipline myself to just stop binging. If it were that simple do you think I might have done it by now? I am surprised at such a lack of understanding. Self will is not something I have ever been short of. For a year I maintained a weight of 105lbs at 5.10" - plenty of self-discipline there, but as you can see in the haze of mental illness it didn't quite work for me.

    I think it's dangerous to insult and slur a programme of recovery which saves MILLIONS of people's lives. EDs are not like a rash or having a problem with your knees. People die from eating disorders. I'm big enough and experienced enough to handle misonformed nonsense, but there are younger and more fragile people in this site who can suffer at the hands of such rubbish.

    Please, unless you have experienced an ED first hand or through someone close to you are or a health practioner who deals with EDs professionally, perhaps keep your nasty and moronic opinions to yourself.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    It's not quite as simple as that, if it was we would all be living a utopian lifestyle.
    It's like saying Anxious people should just stop worrying or depressed people should just be happy.
    Bingeing is not the issue, it is merely a symptom of an underlying condition, just stoping the Binge does not resolve the problem, it may help and be a part of the solution but the drivers for the behaviour need to be addressed. BestBetter has put forward some good points on the process of Neural reprogramming of the behavioural triggers, CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) is one of the techniques to do this.
    Basically the brain has learned a set of responses, most likely in childhood, these may have been appropriate for that time and place, but are not appropriate for the current time as we have matured and are different now, yet the behaviour persists. The behaviour is a well worn groove and as soon as we get the trigger off we go down that groove, so the process is to build new neural pathways as alternatives. Identifying the trigger point and throwing in a trip line to distract us, so at the first sign of a Binge thought we count to 100, do a set of breathing exercises, run around the block, talk to someone, write in a Journal etc. etc. gradually the Binge trigger becomes associated with a new behavioural pathway. Over time the urge becomes weaker and weaker until it fades out entirely, for some it may take a few months, others may take years.
    Personally as a child I had anger issues, if people touched me at the wrong time I'd go into a blind rage, one day I hurt someone pretty badly and I realised this was not a good thing, so every time I hit that trigger i took it out on an inanimate object, gradually over time because my violence hurt me more than the rock or tree, I learned to take a few deep breaths and let it pass. I have seen similar processes for all manner of behavioural issues in myself and others, first step is recognition and identifying a trigger point, then providing an alternative healthier behaviour, but it is up to the individual to take the required steps and retrain their mind, diligence is required and it does take time & dedication.
    Thanks Omni, you really struck a cord with me about the need to rob the ensuing binge of it's power with a distraction. I like the idea of counting to 100, or maybe just getting out of the hosue and jumping up and down for a minute, I think with me it has to be a physical sensation as I have a tendency to go out of body and this would get be back in. I'm going to try this.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorichka6 View Post
    Each and every cookie aisle you may need to talk yourself through. Each day you may need to attend an OA meeting or journal or something. Just like taking a pill for blood pressure or something. You just gotta keep going.
    Thanks - one day at a time. But I want it to stop NOW! And that;s why it's do hard. But that's also why I think primal eating is the best way forward for me.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexy View Post
    [QUOTE

    I have friends and family that have gone through AA and the like and I think it is complete BS. It helps some but it just makes it easier to rationalize IMO when "you are powerless to your addiction." That is BULLSHIT, no one is powerless to their addiction, and you don't need a higher power for help. All you need is discipline and you need to figure out a way to deal with your cravings. /QUOTE]

    Thanks Bestbetter for your thoughtful response. Part of clearing the binging is going to have to be tactics to outmanoevre the negative thinking, to be prepared. I will defintely take on board your helful suggestions.
    The quoting got somewhat confused in this thread a bit but this is actually a quote from me. The line of thinking is from the book I have linked up before. I know that I sound like a broken record and someone who is paid to advertise the book or something, but it really did resonate with me.

    I will give you the gist of the arguments of the book: If you try to figure out your problems and why you started bingeing, etc, it could take a life time. And even if you resolve these problems, bingeing has already been formed as a habit in your head so you will probably still binge. The brain likes habits and it is hard to break them once they have been ingrained (the brain likes to follow the same synapses so if you always give into your craving to binge, it is going to be very hard not to give into it). So, the key to success is dealing with what you do with your cravings. No matter how hard you try to avoid triggers, you will still have cravings, so you need to learn to deal with them.

    The author talks about how cravings come from a primitive part of the brain (as in it is a part of the brain we share with many animals...she calls it the lower brain). Now the lower brain can suggest something to you (like a craving to binge) and it kind of throws it up into the higher part of the brain that only humans possess (obviously this is very dumbed down, and it isn't exactly like this in the brain, but it is a good way of explaining it). It is up to the higher part of the brain to figure out exactly what you are going to do with the craving. The higher part of the brain is going to start rationalizing on why you should binge, due to the craving (it will feel so good, dieting is too hard, you can just eat less tomorrow, etc.) The key is to recognize the urge to binge, recognize that it is from the lower part of the brain, and just make a conscious decision not to follow it. Obviously its not easy, but it is a lot easier to put those urges down when you think of them in this context (coming from the lower brain). The author talked about how sometimes when she would get the urges she would actually listen to her lower brain racing and all of the rationalizations on why she should binge, but she would be able to separate herself as if she was an interested onlooker.

    This strategy has helped me immensely and in terms of bingeing I think this is a very rational and effective way of dealing with it. Every binge is preceded by an urge to binge, so if you never give into an urge, you never binge. And since the brain loves habits, the more you don't give into binges the easier it gets. Each time it gets easier and you should feel good about yourself for being strong. Soon enough your lower brain will not even produce urges because it knows it doesn't get the intended results (for you to binge).

    So that is my synopsis of the method I am using. It makes sense to me and seems to get right to the point. As for anorexia, the author mentions that it is a lot harder to beat because it usually comes along with weight issues and if your intention is to get skinny, and anorexia is producing those results, it will be hard to come to the realization that what you are doing is a bad thing and you need to stop.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexy View Post
    I will add here that I have been sober in AA for almost 10 years, this is no mean feat. Of course thers is no discipline involved, jsut surrender. I was dying from alcoholism and wat totally incapable of stropping drinking for more than a few days. Then I went to an AA meeting and I haven't picked up a drink since that day. My children have never see me drink, my husband has not had a drunk wife for 10 years.

    Anorexia, like alcoholism, is a mental illness and is not about food. Alcoholism is about not being able to live life on life's terms, and anorexia (for me) is about control. My weight and food obsession is a symptom of the illness. Reading a book and not having a binge for 3 weeks is great if it works, but I need more than that because this illness is life threatening and I don't want to die.

    I do not need to discipline myself to just stop binging. If it were that simple do you think I might have done it by now? I am surprised at such a lack of understanding. Self will is not something I have ever been short of. For a year I maintained a weight of 105lbs at 5.10" - plenty of self-discipline there, but as you can see in the haze of mental illness it didn't quite work for me.

    I think it's dangerous to insult and slur a programme of recovery which saves MILLIONS of people's lives. EDs are not like a rash or having a problem with your knees. People die from eating disorders. I'm big enough and experienced enough to handle misonformed nonsense, but there are younger and more fragile people in this site who can suffer at the hands of such rubbish.

    Please, unless you have experienced an ED first hand or through someone close to you are or a health practioner who deals with EDs professionally, perhaps keep your nasty and moronic opinions to yourself.
    Nasty and moronic? Please. I told you I have an eating disorder. I had a drug problem myself and when I quit drugs I went to food. I went from 200 pounds to 300 in a year and a half from binge eating. Since march I have put on about 30 pounds. Think about that for a second. 30 POUNDS in less than 3 months. Its about 2.5 pounds a week of weight gain. Considering I am already extremely overweight this is a serious problem. Don't talk to me about not having an eating disorder.

    Like I said, if AA worked for you, great, keep it up. But you aren't powerless, you don't need to surrender, and you don't need a higher power. If you were powerless you would be dead. If you were powerless you wouldn't be able to stop drinking ever. No one did it BUT YOU.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimhensen View Post
    Nasty and moronic? Please. I told you I have an eating disorder. I had a drug problem myself and when I quit drugs I went to food. I went from 200 pounds to 300 in a year and a half from binge eating. Since march I have put on about 30 pounds. Think about that for a second. 30 POUNDS in less than 3 months. Its about 2.5 pounds a week of weight gain. Considering I am already extremely overweight this is a serious problem. Don't talk to me about not having an eating disorder.

    Like I said, if AA worked for you, great, keep it up. But you aren't powerless, you don't need to surrender, and you don't need a higher power. If you were powerless you would be dead. If you were powerless you wouldn't be able to stop drinking ever. No one did it BUT YOU.
    I am completely and utterly powerless over alcohol. And that is how I have almost 10 years sobriety. If I drink, I die. AA got me sober, however it works, it works.

    I am sorry you are struggling with a binge eating disorder and weight gain, but I have found your comments thus far unhelpful and dismissive. If your books works for you that's great. But I asked for help with my anorexia and the bulimic binge which goes with it. If I wanted a lecture on my spirituality and levels of self-disicipline I would have gone elsewhere. Start another thread if you want to rant against 12th step programs.

  8. #38
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    This discussion is a lot like the tale of "Three Blind men & the Elephant"
    The one at the rear says, oh it's big and smelly with a flailing tail,
    The one in the middle says, no it isn't, it's so big round and kind of saggy,
    The one at the front says, both of you have no idea, it has big flappy things and a long sausage like thing with two big spikes.

    I think there is a lot of good input, but each person is coming from a different perspective, just because it doesn't seem to jell with our own view doesn't mean it is wrong, maybe just needs more study or clarification. Without counting I think there is half a dozen individual personal experiences with eating disorders, each of these has found their own solutions & all are valid to some degree.

    The quote below touched on something similar to a technique I am familiar with:
    Quote Originally Posted by jimhensen View Post
    The author talked about how sometimes when she would get the urges she would actually listen to her lower brain racing and all of the rationalizations on why she should binge, but she would be able to separate herself as if she was an interested onlooker.
    There is a meditation technique I studied, it is a breath based observational technique, very simple.
    When you breathe out through your nose, the passing breath creates a faint sensation on the inside of the nostrils and upper lip, you just focus on one point and observe this sensation, it may be cool, tickly, itchy etc. As you go through the process all sorts of ideas, thoughts, discussions go through your head, but you just maintain your position of impartial observation, it is a process of training your mind not to attach emotional outcomes to these thoughts, we constantly wind ourselves up with desires, fears & regrets. Look at the thoughts that go through your head, most of these are focussed on past events and future possibilities, it doesn't matter if they are pleasant or unpleasant, either way they are denying us the present moment, and ofcourse, the present moment is the only place you will ever exist in, so it is about being in the here & now.
    The technique of not allowing yourself to become attached to the thoughts in your head and just observing the bizzare discussions going on in our cranium is interesting to say the least, sometimes it is quite funny, some thoughts may even be disturbing, but that's ok these are all normal, just watch them unwind and pass by, they come and go, just like a picture show, you just observe them and use the breath sensation as the focus to stop your emotional attachments to what goes on in your head.
    Sorry about the bit of preaching, but I find the technique very useful in many situations.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexy View Post
    Sweets are generally not my problem, I don't even like them that much, but sugar is a problem. I actually have cut it out completely but the binge will often take me there. I have had 'primal' binges with no sugar involved (but the dried fruit of course is the nearest primal thing). I think I even need to stop eating all fruit for a while and see how I go, even the sugar in a grapefruit of banana seems to trigger me. Now it's mid-winter here I'm a bit off fruit anyway. How much do you eat? Does it trigger you do you think?
    Sorry Dexy, I should have clarified - by "sweets" I meant primal foods with sugar in them. Fruit, raw honey, nut butters, nuts, etc. Those are really the only sweets I occasionally do eat, except for the very rare non-primal treat.

    The last two weeks I have been trying to cut out almost all sugar and most carbs. I occasionally have a small bit of grapefruit, no more than a quarter of the fruit, if I am craving something sweet. It's just sweet enough to do the trick, but also a little bitter, so it's not too triggering. I find bananas to be quite triggering - not to mention starchy and sugary - so I stay away from them. Nut butters are also a major trigger for me; I once ate half a jar of almond butter during a binge. Nuts themselves can be dangerous, too, as they are so small for their caloric density. I hope to be able to include them in my diet at some point, but for now I am not eating them.

    I am on vacation in Europe at the moment so staying paleo has been hard, but I have been eating mostly meat and eggs, as well as the occasional salad. I normally do not eat dairy but have been a little lenient with that for the duration of my trip since it is one of the most readily available sources of fat here in Ireland. For the first time I have managed to lose, rather than gain, a few pounds while traveling. I'm trying not to fixate on it, though, as overall health is my main goal right now. But it's nice to know I've lost a little, since I would like to get down to a skinnier (although not excessively so) body weight.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by perfexionist View Post
    Sorry Dexy, I should have clarified - by "sweets" I meant primal foods with sugar in them. Fruit, raw honey, nut butters, nuts, etc. Those are really the only sweets I occasionally do eat, except for the very rare non-primal treat.

    Nut butters are also a major trigger for me; I once ate half a jar of almond butter during a binge. Nuts themselves can be dangerous, too, as they are so small for their caloric density. I hope to be able to include them in my diet at some point, but for now I am not eating them.
    Nut butter! Nuts! These are LETHAL. They should be sold from behind the counter with warning labels. They derail me with their little fatty crunch.

    Enjoy Ireland...I know it well. Thanks for clarifying, yes, I too have a things for 'sweets'. I had grapefruit tonight but only because I bought it a week ago and I couldn't stand the thought of throwing it out.

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