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Thread: Christian/Creation PB followers page 8

  1. #71
    RitaRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karatepig View Post
    Ahhhhhh, but does it not strike you as odd that you must manipulate what you have read to conform to your per-determined conclusion? A good analogy is medical studies. Those who are interested in propagating CW often look at studies/evidence which directly defy their foregone conclusions, then "interpret" them to show how said studies/evidence support the CW position.
    Is this not what you are doing with the Bible, since it DOES NOT indicate a beginning that is consistent with what we have learned about the universe? And, not to sound like a smart-ass, but just what is it that motivates you to seek-out, and defend religion as an explanation for the universe/Man?
    Nope. I don't twist anything around. I don't have to. I don't take the Bible literally. Lots of people like that around.

    Seriously, like you could really explain intricate scientific principles to a mostly illiterate populace back then - you're going to have to tone it down a bit so they'll understand the concept.
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  2. #72
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    Religions like these teach a few things I will talk about below. The funny (or not so funny) thing is that that these ideas persist in our society as memes even in places where people are not actually religiously connected to any of the modern religions I already mentioned (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc). These memes run deep in our society and require an actual dialogue about them for anyone to ever notice them.

    1. People are flawed. No natural living animal would think it is flawed. Our culture does. Why? It explains to our simple minds why there is so much tragedy and chaos in the world. It's easier than saying "we effed up by creating a system where you have possessions and have to work to make money to buy food, and this system hurts the majority but helps an upper class minority of 10-20%", etc.

    From believing that people are flawed, we begin to believe that the world would be better if people were better. From this, everything in our modern society is based upon utopian ideals. Our governments, schools, police squads, etc would all work fantastic if everyone was perfect!

    If people are flawed, then shoot...couldn't that leave someone even more depressed than they were when they first started learning this religion? This religion has it's answer here though. Our culture either believes that "gods will save us" (salvation), or "we are gods of our own world" (scientific ignorance). These are the only comforting notions when faced with the fact people are flawed.

    Plus, the "people are flawed" idea works great for the believer to be confident that they KNOW the one right way to live. *I mean, if other people are flawed, maybe they would be trying to 'dirty' me by trying to convert me away from my religion. Maybe I am better off with my religion than those primitive peoples who don't believe. Maybe those primitive peoples just need enlightenment.* This takes me to the next point...

    2. There is one right way to live. We know the right way to live.
    If it wasn't for this belief, our totalitarian agricultural society would have never spread. People HAD to think that their way was better than the tribes and other modern people they would kill in pursuit of their 'holy' goals. They HAD to think that hard work was good, divine, natural, and praise-worthy. They HAD to think people were meant to suffer.

    3. More of anything will solve the problem of not enough. You won't find this last belief in the religious texts because no one likes a selfish person or god. However, it pervades all parts of our society. I'm including it just so that my list of totalitarian agriculture memes is complete. So, why or how did this belief come to be? Totalitarian agriculture always destroyed the soil after enough use, so peoples had to expand to more land. In the earlier times, this expansion was easy. There were gobs of land to be easily taken from unwary tribes. We as a society have an unfailing, ignorant belief that there will always be something over the horizon that will make us ok. It used to be 'more fertile land', and in the 21st century it is beginning to be "the next technological advancement" that will cleanse our destruction of the Earth. For some it's actually both.... "more fertile land in the form of a whole new planet we can colonize due to the next technological advancement."

    Also, this whole "totalitarian agriculture" way of life destroys certain basic elements of human happiness that people start to get shallower so as to feel some happiness. We think money is the solution to our problems. We buy food, respect, and security. We used to just find/hunt food for free and give/receive support among all the tribe's members

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithpowers View Post
    I would think that the adherence of 75% of the planet to a Judeo/Christian/Islamic one-size-fits-all "god" is a FAR better representation of CW, and thus a far better target for doubt.

    -signed, your friendly neighborhood Asatru heathen
    Oh yeh, good point. What meant is the modern manifestation of CW; the marriage between reason and monied interests; perhaps, we could, for arguments sake, date it from the Italian Renaissance.
    All the best!

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  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeach View Post
    I like black cars.
    Do you like black cars to drive into your tunnel very often?


    Oh and I put forward this thought: If evolution essentially gets rid of weak creatures, might one eventually develop which is both omnipotent and omniscient? And might that creature travel back in time and create the universe in order to ensure that it will come into existence?

    Who knows, "God" could be one of our descendants!
    In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

  5. #75
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    If you really got down to the basic argument of any person who believes these memes and religion, you would see that they don't actually know these things are true. They think they are true because they want them to be true. They want them to be true because it makes their life (from their perspective) a whole lot easier, nicer, friendlier, predictable, and stress-free. Why would a natural human being need anything written in a book to feel happy and stress-free in a friendly, predictable, easy world? The modern, totalitarian agriculture society that we live in has caused trauma to people since its advent 10,000 years ago!

    I choose to be more realistic about how I see the world.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    We used to just find/hunt food for free and give/receive support among all the tribe's members
    To me, that is an overly romantic notion of the past.
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  7. #77
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    I am a Christian (young earth), but I have absolutely no issue with Primal/Paleo eating, it doesn't interfer with my faith, or anyone else's life. I am really enjoying all the stuff I learned, and how much better I feel.

  8. #78
    wiltondeportes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojohaligo View Post
    To me, that is an overly romantic notion of the past.
    That is a fact. What other options are possible? Did we PAY for food? Was the tribe NOT the cohesive unit that provided brotherly/sisterly, fatherly/motherly, grandfatherly/grandmotherly, boyfriend/girlfriend support? Would this support NOT extend to physical things like sharing food when hunts failed, making/fixing things like shoes or shelter if the other person was not capable, or protecting each other from danger??

    It is our culture that thinks more money will solve the problem of not enough anything. Not enough happiness? Buy a car or a TV. Not enough health? Pay a doctor. Not enough emotional support? Pay a psychiatrist. Not enough safety? Pay a cop or bodyguard. Not enough intelligence? Pay a teacher. Doctors, psychatrists, cops, and teachers were all roles that were taken up by members of the tribe in exchange for being part of the tribe. There was no payment, and they never thought that they would need "more" to be happier.

    The concept of needing "more" originates from being in a constant state of "not enough."
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 06-22-2012 at 08:27 PM.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by justyouraveragecavemen View Post
    I don't believe that we were once apes.
    I spent a couple of minutes doing some research and the current theory is that modern humans (homo sapiens sapiens) evolved from homo sapiens who evolved from homo erectus.[1] These species are entirely different than apes, and you should be cognizant of that.

    [1] Archaic Homo sapiens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_e_turner_ii View Post
    If God created the universe and all in it, then who created God?
    Gods don't experience time in a linear fashion like we do. Many ancient creation myths say that The Creation God created itself. Perhaps in the future, the God already existing, creates itself in the past.

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