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  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojohaligo View Post
    What's so hard to understand? Memetics and genetics being different?

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Forager View Post
    Grok once again you are far too literal and it is too tiresome to attempt to educate you. FYI Priapus was not a an artist he is a god, the personification of male reproductivity, the male counter part to Venus. The depiction of exaggerated male attributes is not unique to Ancient Greece.

    I agree the creators of the Venus sculptures probably did see some fat (most likely pregnant) women. But can we say that they were fat from eating grain? I am not so sure. Look at the Ancient Egyptians, they were a very successful grain based culture and yet we don't have images of fat women from them. In fact when Hatshepsut sent an envoy to Nubia they were so impressed at the size of the Queen of Nubia that her image was reproduced many times. Clearly they had never seen any one like that before.
    I don't think the Pharaohs ever ate the grains. I bet that was only used for the slaves who toiled all day long. However...

    I did my research...

    Ancient Egyptian stone reliefs show occasional obese people, such as a cook in Ankh-ma-Hor's tomb (Sixth Dynasty; 2340-2180 B.C.), and a fat man enjoying food presented to him by his lean servant, in Mereruka's tomb.[1]

    [1] http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...1bepSl8bTNmy0w

  3. #263
    Grok's Avatar
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    Actually, I guess the Pharaohs did eat the grains because that study says that the skin folds of the ancient mummies indicated that some were fat.

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Forager View Post
    It might be worth your while to study some art history; you will find that indeed FAT women have been revered through out history. As Cori said they were symbols of the goddess and fertility.

    If those sculptures are historical representations of the first fat women caused by eating grains then what about those gigantic phallus in Greek sculpture do you think those too actually existed?
    I suggest you look up Priapus. Maybe you also believe that the images you find are actual documents of the anatomical structure of Ancient Greek men. Hmmm, I wonder what those men ate and did their women really prefer men of those proportions?
    It's also important to remember that these are small crude figures. More like something that would be used as an amulet object for active use in ceremony rather than set on a pedestal as an idealized statue such as the greeks had around.
    Sophisticated art was not yet in practice... there were no pictures or figures during these times where fine fully detailed human are in represented. Venus and phallic symbols are the two most prominent types.

    The earliest known Venus, Hohle Fels, is currently about 35-40 thousand y/o.
    Have a look at the fat lady in question > Ancient Venus rewrites history books : Nature News
    In addition to a big round stomach area and exaggerated breasts (looks "fat"), it also has an hugely exaggerated vaginal opening...
    It is very obviously a symbolic representation.

    There is also a Hohle Fels phallus that has been dated to approx 30k years ago... which was likely used in fertility rites/rituals that actually involved sex.

    Also... If anyone thinks that Priapus was the only fella with a huge phallus in world culture... might want to get back to studying.
    There are several Greek gods and demi-gods who are hugely endowed. Their representations are of gods of fertility and the artists who represented them were all across Greek culture/class/time... and wondered outside the bounds of Greece to neighboring populations as well.
    There is evidence of phallic worship in many other countries as well... most early civilizations as a matter of fact.

    What about this fella? File:Cucutenimalefigure.JPG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Not a venus... but fat/lazy looking...
    That assessment would be silly... this little clay man is just primitive because he was made a long bloody time ago... 7kyrs?
    (The same groups that made that cute lazy lil guy were also into making clay phalluses BTW.
    Just like the Venus figures. They are not perfect representation of beautiful pregnant women because they are primitive. They are symbolic... they are humanity's first simple steps into self representation. They are not, and are not meant to be the same sort of representation of "idealized perfection" that Michelangelo's Statue of David is.
    Seriously.

    Also... the Greeks and Egyptians were not Paleolithic peoples. They were neolithic.
    Show me some grain evidence to go with Hohle Fels Venus... Yeah, not happening.
    Last edited by cori93437; 06-24-2012 at 08:14 PM.
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  5. #265
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    Yes, the Pharaohs did eat grains but probably not as much as the average folk. The other evidence of their grain consumption can be seen in their teeth. Good job on your research.

  6. #266
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    Also... giantic phalluses don't exist in real life...
    Me thinks someone has never seen a Mandingo video!
    Google that at your own risk...
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
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    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    They are not perfect representation of beautiful pregnant women because they are primitive. They are symbolic... they are humanity's first simple steps into self representation. They are not, and are not meant to be the same sort of representation of "idealized perfection" that Michelangelo's Statue of David is.
    Seriously.

    Also... the Greeks and Egyptians were not Paleolithic peoples. They were neolithic.
    Show me some grain evidence to go with Hohle Fels Venus... Yeah, not happening.
    Nobody suggested the Greeks/Egyptians were Paleolithic...

    Eh? primitive art? What about this 32kya lion man?[1] And no, I'm not suggesting lion men actually existed back then, that's symbolism.

    I'm holding onto my theory that the Venus figurines were historical accounts of the first ever fat women, and not goddesses. You don't have to believe my cockamamie theories.

    I've already shown the evidence of cereal grain eating at Ohalo some 19,400 years ago[2]. Not quite as old as some of the Venus figurines, but pretty close.

    [1] Lion man of the Hohlenstein Stadel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [2] Ohalo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grok View Post
    Actually, I guess the Pharaohs did eat the grains because that study says that the skin folds of the ancient mummies indicated that some were fat.
    I really love that you think that eating grains is the only possible method anyone could use to become fat. It's kind of cute.
    Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

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  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncephalized View Post
    I really love that you think that eating grains is the only possible method anyone could use to become fat. It's kind of cute.
    Yeah, I suppose they could have gorged themselves on fruits and tubers, but considering that they had fields of wheat readily available to them, I'm guessing they gorged themselves on grains instead.

  10. #270
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    BTW, if you have a better theory as to why the Pharaohs got fat, let's hear it...

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