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  1. #251
    Rasputina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    Whether you are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Hindu......you all believe in the same basic facts. Even if you don't follow a bible, you still believe in the same basic facts. You commonsensically separating yourself from church B.S. does not separate you from the core beliefs.

    -If you believe in a heavenly god, you might still believe that he can save us.
    -If you believe in a heavenly god, you might still believe there is an afterlife.
    -If you believe in a heavenly god, you might still believe people are flawed. Then, you think the world would be better if people (not just their way of life) were better.

    How does this hurt me?
    -You and others spend your days hoping to be saved, doing superstitious things to be in his good graces (not always a bad thing but sometimes impeeds on the community like the above mentioned Sunday prohibition);
    -Not worrying about Earth because you have a heaven to go to later not worrying about the environment, not worrying about wars;
    -Thinking people are flawed and either thinking it's all hopeless because of that or trying to impose laws where people have to be perfect to follow them and then penalizing them for being unperfect. (What should be done if people realize they don't have to be perfect for things to work is to simply change our way of life. It's literally that simple because it is our way of life that is failing us, not our imperfections.)

    The Judeo-Christian God in my American vernacular means you believe in heaven, you believe in an afterlife, and you believe you/world can be saved.

    If you honestly, deep down, do not believe any of these things... My talk does not apply to you. You really should have poked your head in here and said you believe in god but don't follow the stereotype of that religion. You aren't a part of that religion at all, and you don't even believe in any form of heavenly god at all. You are simply superstitious who believes in spirits. That's not god or whatever "modern religion" you claim to be a part of loosely. I try not to name call, but that makes you a phony.
    How am I a phony? You had better not mean me personally. As I stated, clearly, I don't claim to believe in any of those things. I'm merely pointing out, as someone who has studied many world religions and religious philosophies in university, that the term "Christian" is a very diverse one, and it is not the place of atheists, or anyone to determine whether a self-identifying Christian "really" is or isn't a Christian. My mother-in-law, for example, is a reverend of the United Church of Christ, she and her church, donate to Planned Parenthood, actively embrace gays and lesbians, participate in outreach the the homeless, and feature guest speakers from other religions into the church. I am not a Christian, nor a member of her church, but clearly they aren't the backwoods bible-thumpers mentioned on this thread. Nor would they take kindly to someone determining that they can't be Christian because they don't believe in a literal Hell.

  2. #252
    Urban Forager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grok View Post
    This is such total B.S. Who the hell idealizes fat women?!

    This is more likely a historical record of the first fat woman man has ever seen caused by eating wild cereal grains.
    It might be worth your while to study some art history; you will find that indeed FAT women have been revered through out history. As Cori said they were symbols of the goddess and fertility.

    If those sculptures are historical representations of the first fat women caused by eating grains then what about those gigantic phallus in Greek sculpture do you think those too actually existed?
    I suggest you look up Priapus. Maybe you also believe that the images you find are actual documents of the anatomical structure of Ancient Greek men. Hmmm, I wonder what those men ate and did their women really prefer men of those proportions?

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojohaligo View Post
    So, if we are not flawed then how do we have a flawed belief system? Gone down a "wrong" path? How is it "wrong" if we are not flawed? I don't get it....
    A flawed person has flawed genetics. A flawed society has flawed beliefs.

    How could a non-flawed person have flawed beliefs? We are a species that evolves not just genetically but memetically too. Our memetic evolution took a wrong path. Normally, this was corrected much more quickly during our history as a species. The Hohokam and the Anasazi did not waste time enjoying their sucky way of life. They left. In other cases, this way of life could have nearly killed out the entire group or tribe which attempted it.

    Now you ask "why did our memetic wrong-path continue instead of being stopped in its tracks"? The very memes we adopted were sustaining memes that are possibly more strong or somehow slightly unique from previous attempts at totalitarian agriculture. Our attempt continued because we believed we were meant to live that way, suffering/hard work is good and natural, that we were flawed, that we will get salvation, that our way of living is the right way, that more will always solve the problem of not enough (unlimited abdundance of nature to expand into as well as a shallow economy involving monetary/resource hoarding).

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthFriendly View Post
    I always kind of liked the idea that those carved stone "venuses" were like gag gifts meant to satirize some cave dude's mother in law or something.
    "Thanks a lot Brock. You better go bury this outback. You're not the one who has to sleep next to her every night."

  5. #255
    Grok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Forager View Post
    It might be worth your while to study some art history; you will find that indeed FAT women have been revered through out history. As Cori said they were symbols of the goddess and fertility.

    If those sculptures are historical representations of the first fat women caused by eating grains then what about those gigantic phallus in Greek sculpture do you think those too actually existed?
    I suggest you look up Priapus. Maybe you also believe that the images you find are actual documents of the anatomical structure of Ancient Greek men. Hmmm, I wonder what those men ate and did their women really prefer men of those proportions?
    Priapus was just a single artist. These Venuses span over thousands of years across many parts of the world. Although not all of them are of obese women, some are clearly accurate representations of a very obese woman. Not something out of the ordinary.

    Gigantic phalluses don't exist in real life, but very obese women actually do exist in real life. Difference there.

    The creators of the Venuses must have seen an actual obese woman.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/8/86/20060510211705!Priapus_Fresco.jpg <-- doubt that really existed in real life.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Willendorf.jpg <-- looks like a modern day SAD diet woman

  6. #256
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    I don't know if you can say I'm a christian primal guy.

    I'm only christian when it's convenient in a given situation. So maybe sometimes I am a christian primal and sometimes I am not.

  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Forager View Post
    It might be worth your while to study some art history; you will find that indeed FAT women have been revered through out history. As Cori said they were symbols of the goddess and fertility.

    If those sculptures are historical representations of the first fat women caused by eating grains then what about those gigantic phallus in Greek sculpture do you think those too actually existed?
    I suggest you look up Priapus. Maybe you also believe that the images you find are actual documents of the anatomical structure of Ancient Greek men. Hmmm, I wonder what those men ate and did their women really prefer men of those proportions?

    I don't know, but I think Grok is making a type of joke.
    Female, age 51, 5' 9"
    SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

    Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
    2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    A flawed person has flawed genetics. A flawed society has flawed beliefs.

    How could a non-flawed person have flawed beliefs? We are a species that evolves not just genetically but memetically too. Our memetic evolution took a wrong path. Normally, this was corrected much more quickly during our history as a species. The Hohokam and the Anasazi did not waste time enjoying their sucky way of life. They left. In other cases, this way of life could have nearly killed out the entire group or tribe which attempted it.

    Now you ask "why did our memetic wrong-path continue instead of being stopped in its tracks"? The very memes we adopted were sustaining memes that are possibly more strong or somehow slightly unique from previous attempts at totalitarian agriculture. Our attempt continued because we believed we were meant to live that way, suffering/hard work is good and natural, that we were flawed, that we will get salvation, that our way of living is the right way, that more will always solve the problem of not enough (unlimited abdundance of nature to expand into as well as a shallow economy involving monetary/resource hoarding).
    Last edited by jojohaligo; 06-24-2012 at 07:45 PM. Reason: embedded instead
    Female, age 51, 5' 9"
    SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

    Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
    2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

  9. #259
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    Grok once again you are far too literal and it is too tiresome to attempt to educate you. FYI Priapus was not a an artist he is a god, the personification of male reproductivity, the male counter part to Venus. The depiction of exaggerated male attributes is not unique to Ancient Greece.

    I agree the creators of the Venus sculptures probably did see some fat (most likely pregnant) women. But can we say that they were fat from eating grain? I am not so sure. Look at the Ancient Egyptians, they were a very successful grain based culture and yet we don't have images of fat women from them. In fact when Hatshepsut sent an envoy to Nubia they were so impressed at the size of the Queen of Nubia that her image was reproduced many times. Clearly they had never seen any one like that before.

  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojohaligo View Post
    Thank you Jojohaligo! I think I will join you in a glass of wine.

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