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  1. #241
    Grok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojohaligo View Post
    Because naturally it is the men who make the art.
    By man I meant mankind or humankind.

    Although if the Venuses were really idealized, then that would suggest they were made by men.

    I would not be surprised if fat was seen as a sign of prosperity since they now actually had enough leisure time to carve idols and be sedentary.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Nope. Exhibit A: Sea horses.

    There are plent of 'flawed' species that are managing to survive still. I agree with you there there have been times in the paleolithic era that we nearly died out, but we didn't.
    How are sea horses flawed? Who decides it is flawed?
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  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojohaligo View Post
    How are sea horses flawed? Who decides it is flawed?
    Have you ever tried riding one? Just sayin'

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by canio6 View Post
    Have you ever tried riding one? Just sayin'
    Why... yes. Yes, I have.

    It didn't end at all well.
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  5. #245
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    Worst. Steed. Ever.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

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    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
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  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Worst. Steed. Ever.
    Inorite?

    They totally got me kicked out of the aquarium.

    Not cool.
    My sorely neglected blog - http://ThatWriterBroad.com

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojohaligo View Post
    Nope still doesn't do it.
    "If people were flawed, wouldn't they have gone extinct in 190,000 years?" Maybe maybe not. No way to know.

    "Wouldn't they have destroyed the world like we are in just 10,000 years way before they reached an age of 190,000 years?" Maybe, but maybe there were not enough of us at that point. I did an experiment in Biology in gr 9 where we took a jar of pond water and sealed it up (except for air holes, so except for the holes a closed system) weekly samples revealed a slowly growing population of organisms that exponentially grew and then exploded - and then suddenly nothing. Maybe we just haven't reached the nothing point yet.

    "Did we somehow evolve from non-flawed creatures to flawed creatures? OR, did just our belief system evolve to be flawed?" How the hell would I know that? I actually understand that you are proposing that the way many people view themselves as flawed (or sinful) is wrong, and this is your best question yet to that point.

    I said "I think what you are asserting is that the religion of the past 10-12,000 years is the catalyst for the damage our socity has done (based on some of the other posts)."
    Then you ask "Religion is the catalyst for our damage. Why? It is what keeps us in this way of life."
    I don't know, I was asking if that is what you are saying, so maybe that is not what you are asserting then.
    You get on track near the end. If human beings were innately sinful and flawed, we would have destroyed ourselves over 190,000 years. You claim there were not enough of us. Fair response. If it weren't for our flawed belief system though, we never would have gotten to be at a point today where we have "too much". 190,000 is plenty of time to grow to whatever size we have today if that was innately something that we are.

    We are not innately world conquerors. We are tribal peoples that have gone down the wrong path for the past 10,000 years. Normally in nature, you say "well, sucks for them" and you go your own way. This case is different and the reason I am adament about talking about it. Our society will not die alone. It kills as it goes, and it is on the path to kill a whole lot more.

    As for the last paragraph: I wasn't asking you a question; I was asking myself a question. You had it right on my assertion.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by stable31 View Post
    Did you really just analogize alcoholism to religious belief? SMH.
    Alcohol is the crutch which the alcoholic becomes at peace with while drinking, but it causes damage to other areas of life and hurts his future.

    *Modern religion* is the crutch to which the religious become at peace with while believing, but it causes damage to others and hurts the future of the world.

    Technically all religion is a crutch of some form, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's good for mind at some point. It's a crutch for explaining mysteries, contradictions, confusions, etc that the layman can't explain. If you don't know logical reasons for everything, it's more pleasing to think you know than to admit you don't know. This crutch is only bad when these beliefs cause damage. This is how it relates to alcoholism.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    You get on track near the end. If human beings were innately sinful and flawed, we would have destroyed ourselves over 190,000 years. You claim there were not enough of us. Fair response. If it weren't for our flawed belief system though, we never would have gotten to be at a point today where we have "too much". 190,000 is plenty of time to grow to whatever size we have today if that was innately something that we are.

    We are not innately world conquerors. We are tribal peoples that have gone down the wrong path for the past 10,000 years. Normally in nature, you say "well, sucks for them" and you go your own way. This case is different and the reason I am adament about talking about it. Our society will not die alone. It kills as it goes, and it is on the path to kill a whole lot more.

    As for the last paragraph: I wasn't asking you a question; I was asking myself a question. You had it right on my assertion.

    So, if we are not flawed then how do we have a flawed belief system? Gone down a "wrong" path? How is it "wrong" if we are not flawed? I don't get it....
    Female, age 51, 5' 9"
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  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    In many cultures still today full thick thighs and buttocks are considered "optimum" by men.
    Hell, some American men still feel this way.
    Skinny, narrow boyish hips have NEVER been idealized in world culture unless you count the modern 20th century 'heroin waif' catwalk look. Modern world views do not apply to old cultures.

    Now, take those preferred thick rounded buttocks and thighs where healthy women store extra fat to sustain pregnancy in lean times...
    In late pregnancy add to that the huge roundness of the belly, full and distended with child, and the engorgement and enlargement of the breasts...
    Also add on some weight gain due to the fact that pregnant women were offered extra food when possible because they were cherished as the bringers forth of new life...
    There ya go... idealization of "fat" women.
    Except that it has less to do with fat than it has to do with the figure of motherhood and the caloric prosperity necessary for women to attain motherhood.
    Best explanation that I've heard yet about the Venuses. Of course they would be describing motherhood. Notice the drooping boobs and butt. Do these not indicate a woman who's had tons of babies? Is that not something to be proud of? These women literally brought the most life into the world for these cultures.

    As for the references in previous posts, I have to disagree somewhat on the "free time" aspect of this art. Tribes even nowadays have tons of free time in some areas. Some tribes work all day, some work like 4 hours a day. We don't know what the land was like where these Venus cultures existed. It's possible that it was very lush and easy for living. The greatest limit on population was likely tribal violence. (If food is plentiful, population booms until it gets checked). If it was lush, my imagination goes back to this account I read on here one time. It describes Europeans meeting Native Americans in the South where rice paddies grew applenty, huge muscadine grapevines hung along the river banks, etc. They made some basic bread out of likely mashed up roots/tubers, and they doused it in bear oil. I think this was taken from a book called the Red Man's Dixie.

    [1]Red Man's Dixie

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