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Thread: Christian/Creation PB followers page 24

  1. #231
    wiltondeportes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojohaligo View Post
    This just does not make sense to me. (I have had a bit of wine at the moment, so that could be it.)

    I think what you are asserting is that the religion of the past 10-12,000 years is the catalyst for the damage our socity has done (based on some of the other posts). But if in the 190,000 years before that various societies had religions then religion does not account for the reason damage has been done. Maybe it is simply that there are more of us? I don't understand what this has to do with religion of any kind actually ancient or agrarian. I mean Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot weren't the most religious guys around...oh wait...you are proposing that people are not flawed...okay I don't see how this explains that people are not flawed either...I am not saying that they are (or are not), but just that your reason does not sound reasonable to me...can you re-phrase?

    There is more wine calling my name from the kitchen at the moment...
    If people were flawed, wouldn't they have gone extinct in 190,000 years? Wouldn't they have destroyed the world like we are in just 10,000 years way before they reached an age of 190,000 years?

    Did we somehow evolve from non-flawed creatures to flawed creatures? OR, did just our belief system evolve to be flawed?

    Religion is the catalyst for our damage. Why? It is what keeps us in this way of life.

  2. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by RitaRose View Post
    Cultures/eras where food is scarce (and fat signifies abundance) or manual labor (exercise) is seen as being something only the poor do, not the upper class.

    Same thing with people back in the day powdering the crap out of their skin so no one would think they were lowly enough to be out in the sun working.
    In many cultures still today full thick thighs and buttocks are considered "optimum" by men.
    Hell, some American men still feel this way.
    Skinny, narrow boyish hips have NEVER been idealized in world culture unless you count the modern 20th century 'heroin waif' catwalk look. Modern world views do not apply to old cultures.

    Now, take those preferred thick rounded buttocks and thighs where healthy women store extra fat to sustain pregnancy in lean times...
    In late pregnancy add to that the huge roundness of the belly, full and distended with child, and the engorgement and enlargement of the breasts...
    Also add on some weight gain due to the fact that pregnant women were offered extra food when possible because they were cherished as the bringers forth of new life...
    There ya go... idealization of "fat" women.
    Except that it has less to do with fat than it has to do with the figure of motherhood and the caloric prosperity necessary for women to attain motherhood.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  3. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by stable31 View Post
    Yep nothing condescending or offensive about that at all.
    If I told an alcoholic that beer was his crutch, would he consider that to be condescending or accurate? (assume he's not drunk or very touchy on the topic)

  4. #234
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    True, cori. I don't think it's any coincidence that very thin women can stop menstruating. That's not exactly a great sign of fertility.
    My sorely neglected blog - http://ThatWriterBroad.com

  5. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spubba View Post
    The only good christian is an extremist christian. The bible teaches this. Lukewarm christians - those who are NOT extremists - will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, but will be rejected by Jesus himself. Revelation 3: 15-16.
    Well, I think that depends on what you think the word 'extremist' means. I think that most people these days thinks that it means 'violent fundamentalist' and with that definiton, I would disagree that that's the 'only good christian'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spubba View Post
    I'm not being an asshole when I say that Christianity and Paleo cannot co-exist.

    They are two parallel schools of thought.
    They do not intersect.

    Christianity is an extreme faith that requires literal belief in a 6,000 year old planet upon which roam creatures that were magically created in a matter of days.

    Christianity also requires that you literally believe that a piece of bread and a sip of wine become the flesh and blood of your god.

    It is not symbolic human sacrifice; it is literal human sacrifice.

    Or god-sacrifice, in this case, since god sacrificed himself to appease his own blood lust. And christians carry it out several times a week.

    To believe otherwise is heresy.
    According to who? you? I guess I'm glad you're not a christian then (since you sound like you would be quite the sociopath as one).
    Quote Originally Posted by Spubba View Post
    Christians used to burn heretics and non-believers.

    Burn them.

    At the stake.


    Until at some point, governing bodies stepped in and put a stop to the torture and burning of heretics. At least in the western world.
    That's a muddled view of history you have there. Religious and Royalists power brokers were both thrown out during the revolution. That was about more than ending religious abuses.

    It's true that religious persecution does and has existed. It's debateable how much of that is because of God and how much of it is the work of people who were using religion as a pretext to obtain worldy power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spubba View Post
    I know a lot of Christians will be angry at me for saying these things (incoming hurt fee-fees), and then refer to some Hallmark-card version of watered-down Christianity that makes up their personal belief system: something that has to do with love, forgiveness, dead relatives in space, and touchyblanket good vibes - popular sentiments nowadays that would constitute heresy in the good old days of good old-fashioned family values and stake-burnin's. Or maybe they'll spout off that no, THEIR church never did that - that was somebody ELSE'S church. You know, the church that uses different scripture - oh, wait, no, that's not right, is it? Because all christians use the bible as the foundation of their belief system.

    Christianity is a brutal and violent religion, one that focuses on the graphic details of a public execution at least once a year, often with live and bloody re-enactments.

    And your scripture demands blood sacrifice.

    Why am I an asshole for pointing this out?

    Or is your priest the asshole for NOT pointing this out, and focusing on touchyblanket happy fuzzy touched-by-an-angel space ancestors feel-good sermons instead of keeping his flock ON FIRE FOR CHRIST and enthusiastic and not-lukewarm and certainly not reading up on Paleo boards where other, more worldly-minded folk ruminate on what their ancestors may have eaten long ago before the world was even born or hatched or poofed or whatever into existence.

    I think it's a poor Christian who would adhere to the PB.

    This rant brought to you by a long-ass childhood spent being dragged into church 4 times a week. I knows me bible.
    Rather than responding to the vitriol line by line, I think that there's more value in exploring what I think is the intent behind the poorly worded original post. To wit, how can people who profess to be bible believing christians rationalise apparently literal contradictions in the bible, and also subscribe to the theory of evolution and all that entails (earth age, paleolithic era etc).

    I once had a conversation with a creationist that went like this:
    "Him: I have a very very very very very very very literal interpretation of the bible.
    Me: What about the section where Jesus says 'if your eye offends you, pluck it out?'
    Him: Well, you have to interpret what he means.
    Me: ....."

    He had identified with a particular christian subculture that wanted to take Genesis literally, along with the attendant benefits that provides, like feeling persecuted for having the weird beliefs of the outside. Which is something that I observe in this community also.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
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  6. #236
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    Did you really just analogize alcoholism to religious belief? SMH.

  7. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    There isn't a complete overwhelming definition, but there are basics that all aspects of Christians must share in order to be Christian.
    Right but these are very few and very simple. You seem to be ascribing more to them than exist. To me it seems that to be a Christian you need to

    A) admit we are not perfect (perfect in the godly sense. You can use the word flawed but to me that seems to be too prejudicial a term)

    B) become forgiven for this imperfection by accepting the sacrifice Jesus made for our imperfections. This takes all of seconds.

    Once this is done...oh shit, I am not perfect. Oh, thanks for fixing that for me. You are done.

    I don't need to fix you. I don't need to pass laws to make you better. I don't have to worry if you drink or fornicate or do something else I consider immoral. I am a Christian regardless and all is good.

    Now, some may take this step. They may say "My fellows are flawed and I will help them by making their flaws illegal" but this is something with which I would not agree. It is also something that is not only the purview of Christians or even the religious. There are plenty of well meaning atheists out there who wish certain laws to be passed to correct perceived wrongs. So I certainly see your point about some Christians it just does not apply to all. It is much like some gay men may say, "I have been oppressed my whole life and denying who I am so I must put on assless chaps, dance on a float headed down mainstreet while wearing a feather boa, and suck off random strangers to show that I am liberated." Yet, this does not apply to all gay men. It does not make them any more or less gay. It is just one aspect some choose to embrace. Some white people have rhythm, some black people do not like fried chicken, and some Christians do not give two shits what you drink or who you sleep with. You are making Christianity about more than it actually is.

    edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    First of all, please understand that I can't know all the intricacies of your own specific belief system that break away from the classic religion you stem from.
    Sorry, I was not trying to ignore your earlier post but it comes down to the above and then this...to me it is is as if you are putting more into the actual classic religion than exists. I am going back to square one...We are flawed, Jesus can fix it. You are adding in the 2000+ years since. I am not.

    It is much like being a vegetarian. On its face a vegetarian is simply one who does not eat meat. You seem to be saying a vegetarian is one who does not eat meat, eats lots of soy, gives meat eaters a hard time, protests at KFC, wants to outlaw the sale of bacon, firebombs Tyson plants etc. Sure some go to those extremes, some just want to eat lettuce and be left the frack alone
    Last edited by canio6; 06-24-2012 at 06:20 PM.

  8. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    If people were flawed, wouldn't they have gone extinct in 190,000 years?
    Nope. Exhibit A: Sea horses.

    There are plent of 'flawed' species that are managing to survive still. I agree with you there there have been times in the paleolithic era that we nearly died out, but we didn't.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

  9. #239
    magicmerl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    There isn't a complete overwhelming definition, but there are basics that all aspects of Christians must share in order to be Christian.
    I can really only think of one: That Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins. Basically everything is up for debate.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

  10. #240
    jojohaligo's Avatar
    jojohaligo is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    If people were flawed, wouldn't they have gone extinct in 190,000 years? Wouldn't they have destroyed the world like we are in just 10,000 years way before they reached an age of 190,000 years?

    Did we somehow evolve from non-flawed creatures to flawed creatures? OR, did just our belief system evolve to be flawed?

    Religion is the catalyst for our damage. Why? It is what keeps us in this way of life.
    Nope still doesn't do it.
    "If people were flawed, wouldn't they have gone extinct in 190,000 years?" Maybe maybe not. No way to know.

    "Wouldn't they have destroyed the world like we are in just 10,000 years way before they reached an age of 190,000 years?" Maybe, but maybe there were not enough of us at that point. I did an experiment in Biology in gr 9 where we took a jar of pond water and sealed it up (except for air holes, so except for the holes a closed system) weekly samples revealed a slowly growing population of organisms that exponentially grew and then exploded - and then suddenly nothing. Maybe we just haven't reached the nothing point yet.

    "Did we somehow evolve from non-flawed creatures to flawed creatures? OR, did just our belief system evolve to be flawed?" How the hell would I know that? I actually understand that you are proposing that the way many people view themselves as flawed (or sinful) is wrong, and this is your best question yet to that point.

    I said "I think what you are asserting is that the religion of the past 10-12,000 years is the catalyst for the damage our socity has done (based on some of the other posts)."
    Then you ask "Religion is the catalyst for our damage. Why? It is what keeps us in this way of life."
    I don't know, I was asking if that is what you are saying, so maybe that is not what you are asserting then.
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