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  1. #221
    stable31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaohinon View Post
    Religion is a harness, not a crutch.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    If you honestly, deep down, do not believe any of these things... My talk does not apply to you. You really should have poked your head in here and said you believe in god but don't follow the stereotype of that religion. You aren't a part of that religion at all, and you don't even believe in any form of heavenly god at all. You are simply superstitious who believes in spirits. That's not god or whatever "modern religion" you claim to be a part of loosely. I try not to name call, but that makes you a phony.
    So what you're saying is that the stereotype must be the reality because you say so.

    Sorry, but I have to call bullshit on that one. You don't get to define me. I'm sorry if quite a few Christians don't fit your stereotype, but that's the reality. Many of my friends are black people that can't dance, gay men that aren't flamboyant and senior citizens that don't sit around bitching about how their kids never call. That doesn't make them any less black, gay or old, even though that's the (unfortunate) stereotype for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by canio6 View Post
    Yes, I think people are flawed. This has nothing to do with Christianity. It has more to do with people being f*cking idiots. If there is a way to legislate people not being morons then perhaps I might support it (not really) but lets face it, that would not work. As a Christian I believe we have free will and that means having the free will to be as jacked up as you want (assuming you are not violating the rights of others).

    Admittedly many Christians are asshats. They pass laws because they think they are the right things to do. Belief in an afterlife =/= having good sense. That does not mean every Christian fits a certain world view. I guess I just do not see why it is okay here to say "All Christians are blah..." yet heaven forbid someone were to say "All woman are..." or "All <insert ethnicity? are..." or "All homosexuals are..."
    Yes. This.
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  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by stable31 View Post
    The idea that being religious is a crutch for the mentally deficient is arrogant, condescending bullshit.
    It is a bandaid or a crutch so to speak. I was pointing out a weakness. Want to know my weaknesses? Would that make you feel better?

    Quote Originally Posted by canio6 View Post
    I think you are making some assumptions that are simply not true. Let's assume for a moment I am a Christian and believe the three things you have listed as core beliefs. How do they correlate to the statements that follow?

    Spend my days hoping to be saved and doing superstitious things...hmmm...no. The church I attended stated that all I had to do to be 'saved' was accept God's gift of salvation. It takes all of 5 seconds (probably less if you want) and as it is a gift freely given and God isn't going to take it back saved is saved. As such I would not have to hope (I would know) nor would I have to do anything superstitious, attend services, perform any rituals or do anything else an atheist or anyone else might do from day to day. Also what do I care about whether or not you drink on Sundays? How does that affect my salvation?

    Not worrying about earth because I have heaven to go to? What about the 80+ years I am here? Sure I might be moving into a mansion when I am 60 but that doesn't mean I want to live in a cardboard box until that point.

    Yes, I think people are flawed. This has nothing to do with Christianity. It has more to do with people being f*cking idiots. If there is a way to legislate people not being morons then perhaps I might support it (not really) but lets face it, that would not work. As a Christian I believe we have free will and that means having the free will to be as jacked up as you want (assuming you are not violating the rights of others).

    Admittedly many Christians are asshats. They pass laws because they think they are the right things to do. Belief in an afterlife =/= having good sense. That does not mean every Christian fits a certain world view. I guess I just do not see why it is okay here to say "All Christians are blah..." yet heaven forbid someone were to say "All woman are..." or "All <insert ethnicity? are..." or "All homosexuals are..."


    For the record I am not sure if I am a Christian or not given that this word seems to mean something different to everyone. I find much of the Bible to be self-contradictory bunk. I find many occupants of Christian houses of worship to be annoying as hell, but not any more so as occupants of the street, bars, or other local establishments. Idiots of all faiths and lack of faiths try to force laws on me I don't want or support. None of which has any affect on whether or not I believe in an afterlife.
    First of all, please understand that I can't know all the intricacies of your own specific belief system that break away from the classic religion you stem from. You can come out and claim your beliefs are the exception, but you must truly deny the basic memes of the totalitarian agriculture religion before I believe you at all. (And I see you did actually address this, so I will continue....)

    Secondly, please understand that I can't know how much you actually act upon your beliefs. You can sound innocent by saying you still care about Earth despite believing it's only a temporary place.

    These calls to innocence do not get to the heart of this discussion. You have to pick a side (and try to defend it with logic) instead of standing on both sides of the fence if you actually want to have a debate. Otherwise, you might as well say that there's truth in every single opinion, so you can't be wrong no matter what. Be decisive and let's get the facts clear.

    Lastly in addressing your own beliefs you alude to here, you belonging to the entire modern society essentially makes you a believer in its religion (in other words, very hard for people when inside the prison to notice its bars). The religious texts are merely outdated (well, to some) versions of the beliefs spouted out nowadays. The core of these beliefs have not changed because they have always been a part of totalitarian agriculture. This why I pursue with confidence that these core memes are still a part of you. Your thought that people are flawed and that there is an afterlife are dangerous notions. It's like a bomb waiting to go off (in you, your children, or your friends). Your bomb may never explode; in other words, your basic beliefs may never lead to highly dangerous activities or thoughts like not caring about the Earth, imposing utopian laws that cause more harm than good, etc. However just like a bomb that hasn't exploded yet, your beliefs are still dangerous if you believe in a heavenly god that
    brings afterlife and if you believe people are flawed.

    Here is why people are not flawed. We lived for 190,000 years without causing even 1% of the damage our society has done in the past 10-12,000 years. This damage that we do as a society has accelerated exponentially throughout the past 10-12,000 years just like our population has grown exponentially. It is our society that is flawed, not its members.

    If you think people are flawed, you start passing laws to keep them in line. These laws are not constructive. They are largely destructive. They don't work either. Does murder stop because we outlawed it?

    Furthermore, you create larger and larger nations so that we can unify these haves and have nots. Who decides that these laws are passed? The haves of course. Where does it end? We already have a global economy, so a global government of some form is just the next logical step in order to keep "order."

    Quote Originally Posted by RitaRose View Post
    So what you're saying is that the stereotype must be the reality because you say so.

    Sorry, but I have to call bullshit on that one. You don't get to define me. I'm sorry if quite a few Christians don't fit your stereotype, but that's the reality. Many of my friends are black people that can't dance, gay men that aren't flamboyant and senior citizens that don't sit around bitching about how their kids never call. That doesn't make them any less black, gay or old, even though that's the (unfortunate) stereotype for them.
    I'm not defining yourself. I'm using the basics of Judeo-Christianity, and I'm applying them to you. If you don't fit the basic beliefs of a belief system, how can you claim to be part of that group? That baffles me.

    Please explain to me what exactly you believe in, or else I have nothing else to say to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sihana View Post
    Offtopic:
    Once again, please do not throw around attacks on each other. This is one of those issues that no one talks about, and it needs to be discussed. It would be such a shame if this thread was closed.

    Have your piece, say it, and do not get mad if someone refutes it. Work harder to prove your points in other ways, but also expect that some people will always be skeptical of "simply believing." Do not attack a persons intelligence, for that shows you are out of intelligent arguments yourself; you have nothing left, so you sling poo.
    I can agree to this as long as both sides are civil.
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 06-24-2012 at 06:50 PM.

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Forager View Post
    Grok, like Cori said these representations of Venus were idealized representations; you can't conclude that those cultures ate copious amount of grain from their art.
    This is such total B.S. Who the hell idealizes fat women?!

    This is more likely a historical record of the first fat woman man has ever seen caused by eating wild cereal grains.

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    It is a bandaid or a crutch so to speak. I was pointing out a weakness.
    Yep nothing condescending or offensive about that at all.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    I'm not defining yourself. I'm using the basics of Judeo-Christianity, and I'm applying them to you. If you don't fit the basic beliefs of a belief system, how can you claim to be part of that group? That baffles me.

    Please explain to me what exactly you believe in, or else I have nothing else to say to you.
    Because, yet again, there IS no One Overwhelming Definition of Christianity that fits each and every denomination and personal variations thereof. I don't really understand why that is so hard to comprehend. They all have slightly varying beliefs or they wouldn't exist as different denominations. Throw in that people make their own decisions in every day life - including their religion - and you have an incredibly wide range of people that still are Christians.

    It's rare to find a group of people anywhere that, though they self-identify with belonging to the same group, will agree on 100% with everyone else in their group. Religion is still just a collection of people who agree somewhat similarly. But they still retain their ability to think, interpret and make decisions.
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  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grok View Post
    This is such total B.S. Who the hell idealizes fat women?!
    Cultures/eras where food is scarce (and fat signifies abundance) or manual labor (exercise) is seen as being something only the poor do, not the upper class.

    Same thing with people back in the day powdering the crap out of their skin so no one would think they were lowly enough to be out in the sun working.
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  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    Here is why people are not flawed. We lived for 190,000 years without causing even 1% of the damage our society has done in the past 10-12,000 years. This damage that we do as a society has accelerated exponentially throughout the past 10-12,000 years just like our population has grown exponentially. It is our society that is flawed, not its members.
    This just does not make sense to me. (I have had a bit of wine at the moment, so that could be it.)

    I think what you are asserting is that the religion of the past 10-12,000 years is the catalyst for the damage our socity has done (based on some of the other posts). But if in the 190,000 years before that various societies had religions then religion does not account for the reason damage has been done. Maybe it is simply that there are more of us? I don't understand what this has to do with religion of any kind actually ancient or agrarian. I mean Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot weren't the most religious guys around...oh wait...you are proposing that people are not flawed...okay I don't see how this explains that people are not flawed either...I am not saying that they are (or are not), but just that your reason does not sound reasonable to me...can you re-phrase?

    There is more wine calling my name from the kitchen at the moment...
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  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grok View Post

    This is more likely a historical record of the first fat woman man has ever seen caused by eating wild cereal grains.
    Because naturally it is the men who make the art.
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  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by RitaRose View Post
    Because, yet again, there IS no One Overwhelming Definition of Christianity that fits each and every denomination and personal variations thereof. I don't really understand why that is so hard to comprehend. They all have slightly varying beliefs or they wouldn't exist as different denominations. Throw in that people make their own decisions in every day life - including their religion - and you have an incredibly wide range of people that still are Christians.

    It's rare to find a group of people anywhere that, though they self-identify with belonging to the same group, will agree on 100% with everyone else in their group. Religion is still just a collection of people who agree somewhat similarly. But they still retain their ability to think, interpret and make decisions.
    There isn't a complete overwhelming definition, but there are basics that all aspects of Christians must share in order to be Christian.

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