Christian/Creation PB followers page 22

[Tribal Rob]

Think of it this way...what would Jesus do? Call people stupid? You know, I just don't think so.

Nope, he'd tell his dad on you, then you'd get propper done

[pdjesson]

... I and others have made very intelligent points that you or other debators have been able to say almost nothing to besides "I simply believe."

Er, no you haven't; unless we're now to consider inane polemic and the regurgitated half-truths culled from a second-rate secular education/conditioning 'intelligent points.' A case in point would be your evolutionary time-line above ; you've made a very bold statement, but where is your detailed proof? And physics is to be the final arbiter; why? What about the fields of biochemistry, mathematics, genetics, paleontologists? Whatever field you look in you will find little to no consensus. It's only that a particular brand of neo-Darwinism suit financial interests and is thus financed better than competing theories. As has been the case from at least a couple of hundred years before Darwin's time.

[RitaRose]

Not all Christians are the same, bible-thumpers you describe. The Bible is not taken by many Christians as literal interpretation. Atheists should, of course, legally be able to hold office in any branch of government, local or national. I also believe the liquor prohibition on Sundays is bullshit, and it was probably enacted so that people would go to church instead of stay home and get drunk. It's bullshit, you're right. But, what confounds me, is that so many non-Christians will try to lump all Christians together in some fundamentalist, creationist, hate-mongering, irrational faction of stupidity. All those who identify as Christian do not believe the same things, or act the same.

This is exactly what I was trying to say. But the minute I say I'm not hate-filled or trying to run everyone else's lives, I'm apparently not a "real" Christian. I guess you're either the stereotype or can't use the label. Nothing else. That's why I pretty much stopped posting.

It's kind of like arguing with someone that the stereotype isn't always true, and you show them that you're not like it at all, so then they turn around and say "Well you must not really be one in the first place because you don't fit the stereotype."

Circular reasoning much?

[GeorgiaPeach]

Listen, I have refrained from saying anything about Georgia this whole time and believe me, it wasn't easy. Why get so snarky?

Sweetie, you don't own it. You framed the question and threw it out there for the masses to do with it what they would. And what the masses do with any question regarding religion is to pretty quickly start discussing their own beliefs. Especially on an OPEN FORUM (can I say that enough??) largely populated by people independent enough to eschew grains and dairy in the name of health.

I will tell you what I told my kids the whole time they were growing up: When someone calls you names, it says less about you and more about them.

Snarky is my playful.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I appologize if what was intended as playful banter has offended anyone.

[wiltondeportes]

Er, no you haven't; unless we're now to consider inane polemic and the regurgitated half-truths culled from a second-rate secular education/conditioning 'intelligent points.' A case in point would be your evolutionary time-line above , above; you've made a very bold statement, but where is your detailed proof? And physics is to be the final arbiter; why? What about the fields of biochemistry, mathematics, genetics, paleontologists? Whatever field you look in you will find little to no consensus. It's only that a particular bran of neo-Darwinism suit financial interests and is thus financed better than competing theories. As it has been from at least a couple of hundred years before Darwin's time.

Honestly?

-My writing is not completely polemic. I did mention the positive benefit of religion: mental health. The rest has been explaining the story of how it all came to be. The only one-sidedness is my dislike of the actual ideas within the religions.
-Regurgitated half-truths? What did I say that was half true?
-Regurgitated from who? Go ahead and list authors or philosophers that I take after, and I promise you that I do not religiously take everything they say to be true. I have reasoned out everything that I say.
-Second-rate secular education/conditioning? How is it second-rate?
-Why do you believe I have been conditioned? I have actual logic behind everything I say and never fall back on any author or philosopher for my reason.
-Where is my detailed proof for the evolutionary time-line? Good grief. I don't have a doctorate and extensive experience in every single scientific field that has allowed us to make these approximate determinations. I will say that the proof is out there if you are willing to look. Furthermore, when you talk about billions of years ago, things are approximate not exact.
-Physics is the final arbiter because those are the natural laws of the universe. End of story. Everything can be explained by physics. There is logic and proofs written behind all of the theorems. Theorems build on top of each other. Things in science are only considered true when 1) something can be proven right and 2) something can be proven wrong. They call it testable and falsifyable. This means that given enough time, you could test and find basically all of modern science to be accurate. It's not perfect, but it points in that direction.
-There may be no complete consensus in any field. People, especially smart ones, have minds of their own. However, all fields will have greater consensus on the more basic elements of their field. Ask any biologist if he doesn't believe in evolution. Ask any physicist if he doesn't believe all things can be defined by physics. Ask any paleontologist if he doesn't think dinosaurs went extinct roughly 65 million years ago.
-Neo-darwinsim????? Suiting financial interests? This is maybe the worst of your awful points. Yes, the entire basis of life science has been corrupted by "the powers that be" so that they may get rich off of us thinking that this silly idea called natural selection is actually real. Wait....not.

[wiltondeportes]

Not all Christians are the same, bible-thumpers you describe. The Bible is not taken by many Christians as literal interpretation. Atheists should, of course, legally be able to hold office in any branch of government, local or national. I also believe the liquor prohibition on Sundays is bullshit, and it was probably enacted so that people would go to church instead of stay home and get drunk. It's bullshit, you're right. But, what confounds me, is that so many non-Christians will try to lump all Christians together in some fundamentalist, creationist, hate-mongering, irrational faction of stupidity. All those who identify as Christian do not believe the same things, or act the same.

P.S. I do not identify myself in as a "Christian."

Whether you are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Hindu......you all believe in the same basic facts. Even if you don't follow a bible, you still believe in the same basic facts. You commonsensically separating yourself from church B.S. does not separate you from the core beliefs.

-If you believe in a heavenly god, you might still believe that he can save us.
-If you believe in a heavenly god, you might still believe there is an afterlife.
-If you believe in a heavenly god, you might still believe people are flawed. Then, you think the world would be better if people (not just their way of life) were better.

How does this hurt me?
-You and others spend your days hoping to be saved, doing superstitious things to be in his good graces (not always a bad thing but sometimes impeeds on the community like the above mentioned Sunday prohibition);
-Not worrying about Earth because you have a heaven to go to later not worrying about the environment, not worrying about wars;
-Thinking people are flawed and either thinking it's all hopeless because of that or trying to impose laws where people have to be perfect to follow them and then penalizing them for being unperfect. (What should be done if people realize they don't have to be perfect for things to work is to simply change our way of life. It's literally that simple because it is our way of life that is failing us, not our imperfections.)

The Judeo-Christian God in my American vernacular means you believe in heaven, you believe in an afterlife, and you believe you/world can be saved.

If you honestly, deep down, do not believe any of these things... My talk does not apply to you. You really should have poked your head in here and said you believe in god but don't follow the stereotype of that religion. You aren't a part of that religion at all, and you don't even believe in any form of heavenly god at all. You are simply superstitious who believes in spirits. That's not god or whatever "modern religion" you claim to be a part of loosely. I try not to name call, but that makes you a phony.

[stable31]

The idea that being religious is a crutch for the mentally deficient is arrogant, condescending bullshit.

[Chaohinon]

Religion is a harness, not a crutch.

[canio6]

Whether you are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Hindu......you all believe in the same basic facts. Even if you don't follow a bible, you still believe in the same basic facts. You commonsensically separating yourself from church B.S. does not separate you from the core beliefs.

-If you believe in a heavenly god, you might still believe that he can save us.
-If you believe in a heavenly god, you might still believe there is an afterlife.
-If you believe in a heavenly god, you might still believe people are flawed. Then, you think the world would be better if people (not just their way of life) were better.

How does this hurt me?
-You and others spend your days hoping to be saved, doing superstitious things to be in his good graces (not always a bad thing but sometimes impeeds on the community like the above mentioned Sunday prohibition);
-Not worrying about Earth because you have a heaven to go to later not worrying about the environment, not worrying about wars;
-Thinking people are flawed and either thinking it's all hopeless because of that or trying to impose laws where people have to be perfect to follow them and then penalizing them for being unperfect. (What should be done if people realize they don't have to be perfect for things to work is to simply change our way of life. It's literally that simple because it is our way of life that is failing us, not our imperfections.)

I think you are making some assumptions that are simply not true. Let's assume for a moment I am a Christian and believe the three things you have listed as core beliefs. How do they correlate to the statements that follow?

Spend my days hoping to be saved and doing superstitious things...hmmm...no. The church I attended stated that all I had to do to be 'saved' was accept God's gift of salvation. It takes all of 5 seconds (probably less if you want) and as it is a gift freely given and God isn't going to take it back saved is saved. As such I would not have to hope (I would know) nor would I have to do anything superstitious, attend services, perform any rituals or do anything else an atheist or anyone else might do from day to day. Also what do I care about whether or not you drink on Sundays? How does that affect my salvation?

Not worrying about earth because I have heaven to go to? What about the 80+ years I am here? Sure I might be moving into a mansion when I am 60 but that doesn't mean I want to live in a cardboard box until that point.

Yes, I think people are flawed. This has nothing to do with Christianity. It has more to do with people being f*cking idiots. If there is a way to legislate people not being morons then perhaps I might support it (not really) but lets face it, that would not work. As a Christian I believe we have free will and that means having the free will to be as jacked up as you want (assuming you are not violating the rights of others).

Admittedly many Christians are asshats. They pass laws because they think they are the right things to do. Belief in an afterlife =/= having good sense. That does not mean every Christian fits a certain world view. I guess I just do not see why it is okay here to say "All Christians are blah..." yet heaven forbid someone were to say "All woman are..." or "All <insert ethnicity? are..." or "All homosexuals are..."


For the record I am not sure if I am a Christian or not given that this word seems to mean something different to everyone. I find much of the Bible to be self-contradictory bunk. I find many occupants of Christian houses of worship to be annoying as hell, but not any more so as occupants of the street, bars, or other local establishments. Idiots of all faiths and lack of faiths try to force laws on me I don't want or support. None of which has any affect on whether or not I believe in an afterlife.