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  1. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by IvyBlue View Post
    Do you? It's not clear, perhaps you are just being provocative. Having been proselytized 3 times in the last 24 hours I'm curious, am I allowed to be a Christian w/o a belief in creationism or am I condemned to hell as these other 3 folks seem to think?
    You'll get no argument from me. I totally agree, theologically.

    Hmm. So far, my Inbox is wonderfully empty.

    Maybe I'm beyond saving.
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  2. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojohaligo View Post
    Reminds me of a program I watched a few years ago, where an Inuit man was being interviewed about the Inuit way of life years back. He was asked what the community did about people who might be mentally ill. He said, with a smile on his face, that someone would take him out hunting and push him off the edge of the ice.
    So when I get an invitation to go hunting with the guys, I'm thinking maybe I should just stay home that day.
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  3. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    I have been in the stage of "could aliens have been god?" and it makes zero sense when analyzed. There is a clear evolutionary tree that we come from. There is no reason for aliens to legimately create us here. There's nowhere for them to fit in, and once more, there's no need for them.

    I will say though that we do not fully know human history. I think that there have been advanced civilizations in the past here on Earth. This is simply evidenced in their knowledge of astronomy and stone masonry. It could end there, or it could be more. We have not solved the deepest answers of physics yet, so we don't know what is necessary for, say, space travel. It's hard for us to imagine a technological society without office buildings and computers, but that's just because we've only seen it this way.

    Now going back to your thought that all religions talk about similar things, so they must be true? Firstly, let's throw aside Atlantis talk. I'm not really aware of this in all or really any religion at all. If this was so, I would categorize it as possibly an historical account but nothing more. Secondly, the reason all of these modern religions say similar things is because they have the same origin! Our totalitarian agriculture society. They have their eccentricities like East vs West and more minor details like whether Jesus or God is the main god of worship. The bottomline about their commanalities is they are memes derived from the agricultural revolution. These memes logically came about, and it is because of these memes in particular that the agricultural society we live in still exists today! I've already discussed them. I will come back and explain their roots if you want. Although honestly, I might just write it tomorrow for the educational value of anyone reading the thread.
    I recently learned about how Proverbs was a copy of the Instruction of Amenemope.[1] Here is one example...

    (Proverbs 22:17-18):"Incline thine ear, and hear the words of the wise, And apply thine heart to my doctrine; For it is pleasant if thou keep them in thy belly, that they may be established together upon thy lips"

    (Amenemope, ch. 1):"Give thine ear, and hear what I say, And apply thine heart to apprehend; It is good for thee to place them in thine heart, let them rest in the casket of thy belly; That they may act as a peg upon thy tongue"

    Indeed, if you consider a Middle Stone Age[2] hunter-gatherer band societies[3], their religion was probably that of the elders who told stories of how their family or clan arose maybe a few generations ago. These older generations were essentially Gods to these prehistoric people. Eventually over time, the band societies formed alliances and tribes and technology grew to the point where humans had more leisure time for things like art. This was roughly 50,000 years ago according to current theory[4]. Some of these tribes in fertile lands grew large and they learned to domesticate animals and grow food. I'm willing to bet ancient Egyptian Gods were actually real live hunter-gatherer cave men who founded the clan many generations ago. Names like Amun and Ra actually sound like a typical caveman name. I bet Osiris and Isis were at one time actual people. However I don't think Isis resurrected Osiris to conceive Horus, I think the true story is that Isis had a child out of wedlock and she made up that story to explain being pregnant and not married. She wanted a son to avenge the death of her husband and to kill her brother-in-law Set.[5]

    [1] Instruction of Amenemope - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [2] Middle Stone Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [3] Band society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [4] Behavioral modernity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [5] Osiris myth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  4. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinup View Post
    This plays a huge part. The more others try to dictate my life with the same stuff I find ridiculous and illogical, the more I push back, and the less respect I have for it all.
    Same here. I'm being told how to live my life every day. For example? This morning, if I wanted to buy an alcoholic drink, I COULDN'T. It is against the law here to buy booze on Sundays until such-and-such o'clock. And some areas are dry (no alcohol sales at all). Explain to me why my freedoms are being limited to appease your god?

    I suppose if the majority of us happened to be Buddhists instead of Christians, eating meat would be illegal, and that would be ok?

    There's more.

    Six states in America constitutionally ban atheists from holding public office:

    Maryland:"That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution."

    Arkansas:
    "No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court."

    Mississippi:
    "No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state."

    South Carolina:
    "No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution."

    Tennessee:
    "No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state."

    Texas:
    "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."
    Christians? Explain how you believe in live-and-let-live and how you're all very nice people, really, and you just love baby jesus and angels and Thomas Kinkaide paintings. I call horseshit on that one. But ohhhh, we want to get all butthurt and whine and cry about fighting and off-topicness and 'disrespect' on this thread and Koom-bye-yah can't we all just get along, apes bananas monkeys fighting something civil discourse my god can beat up your god blah blah blah. Cry me a river and go clutch your pearls somewhere else.

    I still say PB and Christianity can't co-exist because of (a) 6000-year-old earth, no Paleo era at all and (b) what the scriptures say about diet, see below. I'm not sure about Islam as I'm not as familiar with it.

    And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food. Genesis 1:29

    Every herb yielding seed is describing grains. Eat 'em up. The Lord commands it!

  5. #195
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    I find it interesting that things like rock tools, spears, control of fire and clothing were invented by completely different species than homo sapiens. There is evidence of clothing dating back 500,000 years[1] and the earliest homo sapien skull is 200,000 years old.[2]

    [1] History of clothing and textiles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [2] Human - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  6. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spubba View Post
    Same here. I'm being told how to live my life every day. For example? This morning, if I wanted to buy an alcoholic drink, I COULDN'T. It is against the law here to buy booze on Sundays until such-and-such o'clock. And some areas are dry (no alcohol sales at all). Explain to me why my freedoms are being limited to appease your god?

    I suppose if the majority of us happened to be Buddhists instead of Christians, eating meat would be illegal, and that would be ok?

    There's more.



    Christians? Explain how you believe in live-and-let-live and how you're all very nice people, really, and you just love baby jesus and angels and Thomas Kinkaide paintings. I call horseshit on that one. But ohhhh, we want to get all butthurt and whine and cry about fighting and off-topicness and 'disrespect' on this thread and Koom-bye-yah can't we all just get along, apes bananas monkeys fighting something civil discourse my god can beat up your god blah blah blah. Cry me a river and go clutch your pearls somewhere else.

    I still say PB and Christianity can't co-exist because of (a) 6000-year-old earth, no Paleo era at all and (b) what the scriptures say about diet, see below. I'm not sure about Islam as I'm not as familiar with it.



    Every herb yielding seed is describing grains. Eat 'em up. The Lord commands it!
    Not all Christians are the same, bible-thumpers you describe. The Bible is not taken by many Christians as literal interpretation. Atheists should, of course, legally be able to hold office in any branch of government, local or national. I also believe the liquor prohibition on Sundays is bullshit, and it was probably enacted so that people would go to church instead of stay home and get drunk. It's bullshit, you're right. But, what confounds me, is that so many non-Christians will try to lump all Christians together in some fundamentalist, creationist, hate-mongering, irrational faction of stupidity. All those who identify as Christian do not believe the same things, or act the same.

    P.S. I do not identify myself in as a "Christian."
    Last edited by Rasputina; 06-24-2012 at 10:12 AM.

  7. #197
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    People must have been eating grains prior to agriculture.[1]

    These were probably the first fat women on the face of the Earth and they had to document it somehow.

    [1] Venus of Laussel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  8. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeach View Post
    If there was ever proof that we evolved from apes, it's you guys on this thread looking like a bunch of monkeys fighting over bananas.
    And what is so derogatory about fighting over bananas?
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeach View Post
    There are plenty of concepts/practices held by people on this board that do match up with PB/paleo. Yet, I'm not going around labeling you as a hypocrite because you eat dairy or beans and legumes or chcocolate. I'm 100% strict paleo. But I'm not jumpin on your threads and arguing about your approaches when you give a recipe that included rice or whatever.
    Because one's choice of rice does not affect me. One's belief in a heaven is quite a good start to doing crazy things here on Earth and messing it up for everyone else, including me.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeach View Post
    Point being, I asked a specific question, and only the truely intelligent were able to simply answer it...
    Intelligence doesn't make you obedient. I and others have made very intelligent points that you or other debators have been able to say almost nothing to besides "I simply believe."

    Quote Originally Posted by JBailey View Post
    Yeah. I'd be happy not to care, but people are making laws that cause my household hardship based on their choices of religion. And people get hurt & killed over choices of religion. So it's basic self-preservation to care what craziness people believe. Sad, but true.
    This is exactly why I am posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by summoora View Post
    No matter how far back you go, whether you believe in evolution or not, everything comes from something. If you keep backtracking, eventually you need some everlasting catalyst, the reason that anything exists at all. That's God. Science is all about cause and effect. Evolution doesn't explain what caused our existence. It's just a theory as to what we come from.
    First of all, evolution does explain our existance. Around 4 billion years ago, the self-replicating process of RNA in dirt developed into the common ancestor for all of life on Earth. 2 billion years ago, first complex cells. 600 million years ago, first simple animals. 200 million years ago, first mammals. 55 million years ago, first primates. 10 million years ago, our ancestors diverge from gorillas. 3 million years ago, early man.

    The catalyst all along has been physics. The properties of basic physics are thus: things attract and repel, things are always in motion. This means that matter groups together and dissipates as time goes by. DNA, life's code, is basically able to corral this matter and organize it. Since matter is always in motion, naturally DNA will always change. This physics reason for DNA changing is why evolution can occur. The "more fit for their environment for long enough to replicate themselves" cells are the ones which replicate themselves more, and that is how natural selection "selects" the species which survive and die.

    If you don't just throw your hands up and say "must be god!" then you would see all the answers are there...


    Quote Originally Posted by summoora View Post
    Somewhere else you mention that in order to have a religion, you have to believe man is flawed. You say that like it's a bad thing to believe. 1. According to the theory of evolution, natural selection doesn't make perfect, just good enough, and 2. If religion is flawed but also man-made, then man is inherently flawed.

    perfect according to dictionary: entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings
    flawed: having imperfections

    Also, religion's most important goal is the worship of God. God created us, to Him we return, we exist to praise Him and do what He orders us to do. Without that, religion is just a social contract. In other words, the point of religion is not that man is flawed or "I know the perfect way to live." It's, "God is perfect, I am convinced this message is from God, so I follow it." I'm Muslim, and I don't try to take pieces from my religion and leave others. I will stand by anything in the quran or verified to have been said by our prophet, peace be upon him. I have a strong background in science and don't find that the two contradict each other. In fact, the ink of a scholar is more valuable in Islam than the blood of a martyr.
    I never said that "in order to have a religion, you have to believe man is flawed." What I said is that people thought man is flawed instead of their way of life being flawed. The totalitarian agricultural religions reinforced this notion, allowing them to expand to cover the world. If people realized their way of life was flawed, they surely would have quit it just like the Anasazi or the Hohokam people did. They walked away.

    WTF are you talking about with your next points? Flawed in the sense of our society's belief means unfixable. That's why religion then says this is only a temporary world, and there is heaven or hell afterwards. Humans are not "perfect", otherwise they would leap buildings in a single bound and blow fireballs out of their ass. Humans are natural, as they are a result of natural selection. That makes them an animal just like lions, tigers, and bears.

    "If your religion is flawed but also man-made, then man is inherently flawed." .......I have no idea what you mean here. If you are suggesting that if humans actually did make up the religion, and they wrote a flawed religion: then they must be flawed? No, that means they made a mistake. Evolved creatures make mistakes. Sometimes they go extinct because of them.

    No shit that the point of religion is for you to follow your god. Your god that you call perfect tells you things like "this is the right way to live" and "man is flawed". You do not have a strong background in science. You might know some applicable material like medical science or engineering, but you do not get the base of it.
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 06-24-2012 at 12:37 PM.

  9. #199
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    I haven't commented because I haven't read any of the lengthy comments you guys have posted. I didn't subscribe to a post about a debate on the issue. So I have been scanning for the relevant info I was looking for. Simply put, this is not a debate for me, so I don't care to respond. I'm busy making coconut milk yogurt and fermented veggies!
    Don't let anybody tell you, "You can't" just because they can't.

  10. #200
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    We've been eating cereal grains since at least 19,400 BP.[1] But I think those Venus' from 25,000 BC indicate we've been eating cereal grains even earlier than that. The excavation at Ohalo is the earliest known sedentary community.[2]

    [1] Ohalo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [2] Cradle of civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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