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  1. #151
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    Primal Fuel
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  2. #152
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    The first stone tools were used by Hominines 2.6 million years ago.[1] Assuming we have evolved from Homo Habilis, then we have been eating meat for at least that long. The earliest evidence of control of fire is about 1.7 million years ago.[2] So, we have been eating cooked food for at least that long.

    [1] Oldowan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [2] Control of fire by early humans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  3. #153
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    Homo Erectus is considered to be the first species to live in a hunter-gatherer society.[1]

    Their society was most likely that of of Band society.[2]

    [1] Homo erectus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [2] Band society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    IS it better than the "Aliens" crowd? Do "Aliens" believers believe they have holy land and are willing to kill for rights to use it? Do "Aliens" directly and indirectly lead a more damaging way of life, to themselves and their surroundings, because their gods told them it was ok?

    Well, actually there are Alien belief groups that are off the rails fanatical and cause harm to themselves and others. Scientology for instance... which is an Alien belief based "Religion". Other Alien cults have formed, been led by abusive nuts, and ended in mass suicides. The biggest difference in Alien belief cults and Religion IMO is scale.
    Other than that all things are pretty equal... except that Alien cults tend to get more fanatics and less types who are more mellow "it's just about the Love of (insert god/christ figure here)".


    You are right that the very basic element of "Aliens" and "Jesus" crowds are the same. They believe something is true without complete proof. At the end of the day, we are all believers of something.
    (...snip...)
    I do have my beliefs. The difference is that my story fits together a million times more accurately and in more detail than any religious text. Science proved these religions were antiquated and wrong. Anthropology proved our totalitarian ag society is not the only society of people on this Earth.
    For sure... right there with you.

    I totally get some aspects of religion... the Tao Te Ching for instance... Zen Buddism...
    BUT, I get them from a philosophical standpoint, not some magical worship type of thing.
    I read them the same way I read some of the ancient Greek philosophical offerings.
    There are some good ideas stuck in between a bunch of awful stuff in the Bible too... that's how I look at it.
    No, I don't worship any god, but I probably live my life closer to the rules set down by "God" than many people who jump up and down professing their devotion.

    I'll always take science, logic, and philosophy. I'm not handing my intellect over to any Religion.
    I honestly haven't ever understood why anyone would...
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    For sure... right there with you.

    I totally get some aspects of religion... the Tao Te Ching for instance... Zen Buddism...
    BUT, I get them from a philosophical standpoint, not some magical worship type of thing.
    I read them the same way I read some of the ancient Greek philosophical offerings.
    There are some good ideas stuck in between a bunch of awful stuff in the Bible too... that's how I look at it.
    No, I don't worship any god, but I probably live my life closer to the rules set down by "God" than many people who jump up and down professing their devotion.

    I'll always take science, logic, and philosophy. I'm not handing my intellect over to any Religion.
    I honestly haven't ever understood why anyone would...
    +1.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by RitaRose View Post
    There is no perceived need for black pigs. Pink pigs and white pigs do the job quite well. For that matter, there's no specific need for pigs in general. Sure, they have a role in the world, but we could just as easily eat cows and chickens and fish and do quite well. The world does not demand their existence. And yet they exist.

    The one failing of science (often attributed to theology) is that there must be a reason, a "need", for the existence of everything, and every action must have a compelling reason.



    And yet quantum physics makes sense?
    Regarding the pig analogy: That is no reason for me to worship a god. If black pigs had never before been encountered by man, what reason would anyone have for stating, as a matter of fact, that they exist? Their existence would be completely possible, even likely, from an evolutionary stand-point. Each generation of a given species will have variances in its' genes that may or may not give it a new physical trait. If this trait increases, or at least does not decrease, the organisms chances to reproduce, then it might just stick around. However, anybody saying this, would be justifying their HYPOTHESIS, not belief. Anybody who stated that the knew black pigs existed as a fact, would be LYING. Answer me this, please: Do you know, as a matter of fact and faith, that there is a god?

    Now to the second point: When you get into the unseen bits of our universe, "common sense" has no place. "common sense" was developed and is useful only in, our day-today, macroscopic world. Particles can be in two places simultaneously. That has been successfully demonstrated in many experiments. Particles have particle-wave duality, space "warps", etc. All these things are logical, and sensible once you begin to understand the how and why,

    Finally, the third point:The atheistic explanations for the universe do not require a "need" for anything. They just give the reasons. And there always is a reason, perceived or not.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grok View Post
    The first stone tools were used by Hominines 2.6 million years ago.[1] Assuming we have evolved from Homo Habilis, then we have been eating meat for at least that long. The earliest evidence of control of fire is about 1.7 million years ago.[2] So, we have been eating cooked food for at least that long.

    [1] Oldowan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [2] Control of fire by early humans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Quote Originally Posted by Grok View Post
    Homo Erectus is considered to be the first species to live in a hunter-gatherer society.[1]

    Their society was most likely that of of Band society.[2]

    [1] Homo erectus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [2] Band society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Were these intended to be a response to someone or are you just putting them out for educational value?
    Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

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  8. #158
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    I like how Pratchett put it in Thud...

    “You know, your religion really messes people up,” said Vimes.

    “Not in comparison to what they do to one another,” said Bashfullsson, calmly folding the dead dwarf’s hands across his chest. “And it is not a religion, Commander. Tak wrote the World and the Laws, and then He left us. He does not require that we think of Him, only that we think.”

    I like creationism because I like a good story. I do not have the brain power, knowledge of quantum physics, or the required give a f*ck to know about appearing and disappearing particles, bangs big or small, or the other scientific theories, laws, proofs, and guesses that make up the beginnings of the universe. Created by some bigger, smarter, more powerful entity? Sure I can wrap my little - evolved from a common ancestor kinda-monkey - brain around that. But I think said creator has better things to do than watch to see if I am praying, beating off, abusing my fellow man, or eating grains. He got it all started and went off to do better and more godly things, which left us to think, evolve, progress, digress, and generally make a pig's ear of it all. Is that just a fancy way to say, "I don't know the answer; physics happens"? Maybe. Frankly I don't care, but 40 days of rain, a big f*cking ark, and a dude dying on a cross makes a far better story than "Yeah, so then some particles formed and blah blah" so I will stick with that and let reality fall where it may. Beliefs make us human. To quote Pratchett again...


    Death: Humans need fantasy to *be* human. To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.
    Susan: With tooth fairies? Hogfathers?
    Death: Yes. As practice, you have to start out learning to believe the little lies.
    Susan: So we can believe the big ones?
    Death: Yes. Justice, mercy, duty. That sort of thing.
    Susan: They're not the same at all.
    Death: You think so? Then take the universe and grind it down to the finest powder, and sieve it through the finest sieve, and then show me one atom of justice, one molecule of mercy. And yet, you try to act as if there is some ideal order in the world. As if there is some, some rightness in the universe, by which it may be judged.
    Susan: But people have got to believe that, or what's the point?
    Death: You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?


    so long story short, I think Creationism makes a good story so i will buy into it because frankly it doesn't matter how we got here, here we are. A little fantasy goes a long way.
    somehow I manage to leave my intelligence and decorum at the door wherever I go. I doubt your journal will be an exception to that - not on the rug

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  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncephalized View Post
    Were these intended to be a response to someone or are you just putting them out for educational value?
    Just educational value.

    I was about to respond to one of your posts about using traps and fishing nets etc.

    After some more research, we need to be clear if we are referring to the Middle Stone Age or the Late Stone Age.

    Homo Sapiens appeared roughly 200,000 years ago[1] and The Great Leap Forward occurred some 40-50k years ago along with the extinction of the Neanderthals.[2]

    [1] Human - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [2] Behavioral modernity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  10. #160
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    Again, I'm seriously not proselytizing. I don't want to convince anyone that God exists. I was merely stating that the lack of a need behind God's existence does not automatically preclude there being a God. I'm really confused as to why there is a need to debate that.

    My original purpose in posting in this thread was to explain that not all Christians believe in a literal reading of the Bible or deny evolution. I'm one of those that believe wholeheartedly in evolution. And I'm not trying to get anyone to believe in anything other than that they (and I) can't possibly know everything there is to know about the universe and beyond.

    I'm done debating because I never did want to debate. Unfortunately, that's where it went, whether I liked it or not. I shouldn't have been surprised. It always does. I was just trying to explain that not all Christians fit the stereotype. Shame on me.

    Yet again, believe whatever you want. It really is no business of mine. I never thought it was.
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