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  1. #71
    trekfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimhensen View Post
    I could EASILY make the same claim for vegetarianism. You can find tons of forums and blogs just like the ones you are talking about that show people with improved health after dropping meat. How is primal any different from vegetarianism in terms of what blogs and people on forums dedicated to the diet say about it?



    Replace grains with meat, and primal with vegetarianism, and someone on a vegetarian website can say the exact same thing. You can't even deny it.



    Primal will never become mainstream. But my points are 100% valid and you just have to do some searches for vegetarian blogs and forums to know that I am right. In fact, I bet there are a lot more vegetarian blogs and forums than primal/paleo ones.
    1. Comparing Primal to Vegetarianism isn't valid, at least in terms of what they support nutritionally. Primal fully recommends the dropping of all grains and processed junk foods, while Vegetarianism-in my limited understanding of it-merely recommends dropping meat and all it's by products; it then replaces that meat with fake meat (such as soy) and does not recommend the elimination of grains in the least. Also, there are a number of former vegetarians and vegans who have switched to the Primal lifestyle on these very forums and their experiences seem to confirm that, while the initial gains of vegetarians are comparable to Primal (in terms of healthy benefits) it's not nearly as supportable in the long term, nor as easy to maintain.

    2. I can deny it and I shall-Vegetarianism and Primal, nutritionally, do not compare. Meat and meat by products aren't in most processed foods, unlike grains and grain by products. Primal doesn't advocate fake food, Vegetarianism does and the fake food it advocates is worse than the food it tells you not to eat.

    3. I'll grant you that there are more Vegetarian blogs/sites than Primal ones, simply because Vegetarianism has been around much longer in the mainstream. I will not grant you the point of Primal never becoming mainstream-everything becomes mainstream at some point when it becomes profitable to do so. Right now, with the state of the food/heath industry, it's not profitable-they're all making tons of money off the grain fed ill masses. Once they start losing money, than you'll see them begin to come out with "new, revolutionary" studies on things that have "incredible findings" and Primal/Paleo will be-in some form or fashion-part of the new health recommendations.
    Went Primal July 25th, 2011.

    Current Age: 25

    Total Loss: 126 lbs

    Starting Stats: Weighed 266 lbs, Body Fat 37.6% (100 lbs), BMI 40.9

    Current Stats: Weight 140 lbs, Body Fat 15.2% (21.1 lbs), BMI 21.2

    Current Goals: Get a stronger core through Pilates and continue being as Primal as I can be.

    My Weight Loss Notes Now on a blog page. It starts with "My Weight Loss: Introduction." Available to the public, share with friends if you'd like!

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by codered5 View Post
    I don't understand, I don't know if you're just trying to get people riled up, you're illiterate, or what, but most of the newer research clearly suggests that grains cause adverse reactions in almost ALL people who consume them. There is also strong suggestions that the primal diet is vastly superior to others when it comes to total nutrient intake, according to the research.
    Post the research.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimhensen View Post
    Post the research.
    Why? You'll just argue that it's inconclusive. What you fail to understand, is that this WOE has proven itself to us~ that makes it the only 'research' that matters.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nady View Post
    Why? You'll just argue that it's inconclusive. What you fail to understand, is that this WOE has proven itself to us~ that makes it the only 'research' that matters.
    +1
    Went Primal July 25th, 2011.

    Current Age: 25

    Total Loss: 126 lbs

    Starting Stats: Weighed 266 lbs, Body Fat 37.6% (100 lbs), BMI 40.9

    Current Stats: Weight 140 lbs, Body Fat 15.2% (21.1 lbs), BMI 21.2

    Current Goals: Get a stronger core through Pilates and continue being as Primal as I can be.

    My Weight Loss Notes Now on a blog page. It starts with "My Weight Loss: Introduction." Available to the public, share with friends if you'd like!

  5. #75
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    lol, people claim there is a lot of new research saying that grains are bad for you...then I ask for the research to be posted and you refuse. Guys, there is research that says that grains actually cures cancer. I'm not going to post it though.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimhensen View Post
    Comparing trans fats and cigarettes to grains is laughable. There have been TONS of studies on grains and they don't show that they are bad. You could say they are all a big conspiracy, but is that really the logical explanation? Or you could come up with some other round about way of rationalizing all the studies that disagree with you.
    Sure. Pot is illigal because of us cotton industrie (even in us states that allow it for medical reason it's prohibited by federal law) there are enought studys who talk about the bad effects. Like there are studys linking Justing Biber to high colesterol.
    I have never seen any study saying grains are good for you. On the other hand there is some linking. When ever there are school shootings politicians say it is because of first person shooters. Its not, all people who have commited the crime of school shootings have eat bread. It's the bread that makes the youth go crazy.
    Transfats ,cigaretts, creationism, whole grains it takes time to cure dogmas. And yes it is a conspiracy. A necessary evil. Because we can not feed everybody in a healthy way. People have to die that others can live. So why bother to do studys. Poor families here are called "pasta-families", because pasta is an easyway to feed people. 4€ a day is the money for food a day german people get as unemployment pay. You can live on that, with pasta. So poor people are fat, and getting fat doesn't cost much.
    And as i said it is about money. Selling grains is a multi billion dollar Business, thats even much in Euro. Why would anyone care to do studys on grain. To aid the poor? But who cares about poor people?
    Why are companys selling artificial sweeters not very interessted in studys about stevia? Why took it so long to get stevia on the market?
    It's like oil companys funding studys about alternativ energys. The OPEC is well known for funding alternatives to oil, to make them poor.
    And who else should be interessted? Pharma industires? Why, there is more money in sick people.
    Give me a reason why anyone would found a study that makes no one rich. Isn't all about getting more profit and getting rich?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimhensen View Post
    Off topic but I guarantee this is complete bullshit. So lets see some sources, for this AND for increases in celiac disease. Also, even if celiac disease has increased, can you link me to some study that shows it has to do with grain consumption?
    Ethische Anlagen: Katholische Bank investiert in Verhütungsmittel-Hersteller - SPIEGEL ONLINE you can garantie it is not bullshit, i hope you can read a little german. Otherwise it says the catholic pax bank invested 158.867€ in a company producing the pill (the sin abeting Company would be Wyeth) some money in arms and some in tabaco. Beside beeing a fraud, religion is a business, it's all about money, like the rest of the world, but you know that.
    No i can't link you a study that links celiac with grain. But is there any need? If you have celiac you should not eat grain, so even if it has to do with alien abduction or what ever you think, the solution is not eating grains.
    Increase in celiac disease baffles doctors - UPI.com
    and yes i only link newspaper articles. Find the studys yourself google is your friend, grains are not
    Last edited by Austrian_Carnivore; 06-24-2012 at 05:34 AM.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by trekfan View Post
    1. Comparing Primal to Vegetarianism isn't valid, at least in terms of what they support nutritionally. Primal fully recommends the dropping of all grains and processed junk foods, while Vegetarianism-in my limited understanding of it-merely recommends dropping meat and all it's by products; it then replaces that meat with fake meat (such as soy) and does not recommend the elimination of grains in the least. Also, there are a number of former vegetarians and vegans who have switched to the Primal lifestyle on these very forums and their experiences seem to confirm that, while the initial gains of vegetarians are comparable to Primal (in terms of healthy benefits) it's not nearly as supportable in the long term, nor as easy to maintain.

    2. I can deny it and I shall-Vegetarianism and Primal, nutritionally, do not compare. Meat and meat by products aren't in most processed foods, unlike grains and grain by products. Primal doesn't advocate fake food, Vegetarianism does and the fake food it advocates is worse than the food it tells you not to eat.

    3. I'll grant you that there are more Vegetarian blogs/sites than Primal ones, simply because Vegetarianism has been around much longer in the mainstream. I will not grant you the point of Primal never becoming mainstream-everything becomes mainstream at some point when it becomes profitable to do so. Right now, with the state of the food/heath industry, it's not profitable-they're all making tons of money off the grain fed ill masses. Once they start losing money, than you'll see them begin to come out with "new, revolutionary" studies on things that have "incredible findings" and Primal/Paleo will be-in some form or fashion-part of the new health recommendations.
    You aren't really understanding my argument. I agree that vegetarianism is inferior to a primal diet in most incarnations. My argument is that everything you said about primal (I know people that have done great on it, I feel great on it, lots of people on the internet do great on it too, so it must be right) can be said about vegetarianism (which both of us know is in most forms a lacking diet). So, if you can make the same arguments for why vegetarianism is the best diet that you made for why primal is the best, your arguments are invalid.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimhensen View Post
    You aren't really understanding my argument. I agree that vegetarianism is inferior to a primal diet in most incarnations. My argument is that everything you said about primal (I know people that have done great on it, I feel great on it, lots of people on the internet do great on it too, so it must be right) can be said about vegetarianism (which both of us know is in most forms a lacking diet). So, if you can make the same arguments for why vegetarianism is the best diet that you made for why primal is the best, your arguments are invalid.
    You must not be understanding me, because you can't compare Vegetarianism to Primal; it's not doable. Vegetarianism does not call for the elimination of grains and foods with grain by products in them. Vegetarianism promotes fake food, Primal does not. Because of these things, and more Vegetarianism cannot be compared to Primal, thusly they cannot have the same things said about them. People who are vegetarians don't say "well, my diabetes/arthritis/ect has been healed thanks to giving up meat!" It simply hasn't been heard of in regards to vegetarianism (at least I haven't heard of it).

    The specific examples that Primal offers (the success stories and various other resources on this site and others) don't compare to vegetarianism at all.
    Went Primal July 25th, 2011.

    Current Age: 25

    Total Loss: 126 lbs

    Starting Stats: Weighed 266 lbs, Body Fat 37.6% (100 lbs), BMI 40.9

    Current Stats: Weight 140 lbs, Body Fat 15.2% (21.1 lbs), BMI 21.2

    Current Goals: Get a stronger core through Pilates and continue being as Primal as I can be.

    My Weight Loss Notes Now on a blog page. It starts with "My Weight Loss: Introduction." Available to the public, share with friends if you'd like!

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nady View Post
    Why? You'll just argue that it's inconclusive. What you fail to understand, is that this WOE has proven itself to us~ that makes it the only 'research' that matters.
    You will at least have the moral high ground, and others (including me) would be interested to see it.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMonkey View Post
    You will at least have the moral high ground, and others (including me) would be interested to see it.
    Since you quoted me~
    1. My Google works the same as everybody else's.
    2. I have better things to do than feed the resident troll.
    3. I'm 62~ the *moral high ground* got flattened out a couple of decades ago~ frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

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