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Thread: Gallstones - Looking for Research Help page

  1. #1
    TomS's Avatar
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    Gallstones - Looking for Research Help

    Primal Fuel
    I am looking for help with research to find actual scientific evidence as to what causes gallstones and what you can do once they're developed. I don't mean to attack the websites that are out there, but I can't take someone's opinion that doesn't cite any research as the truth.

    Background:
    My friend and I are doing the Paleo lifestyle for the past 6 months, after having followed a fairly high carb, low fat "lifestyle" for the previous 20 years. She has now developed gallstones, which of course are being blamed on the high fat diet. She's set to see the surgeon this week for the pre-surgery appointment. She wants the surgery since she thinks it's likely she'll continue to get them, I'm telling her it's a bad idea if we can find a way to avoid it.

    I'm trying to find actual studies (preferrably from medical journals) that show the correspondence of low fat diet to gallstones as well as actual evidence of alternatives to surgery.

    I realize that there are options, such as a liver/gall bladder cleanse and I've heard that continuing to eat high fat can actually help dissolve the stone, I'm looking for research that shows this evidence that this is the case.

    I don't mean to be rude, but I'm not looking for anyone's personal experience (I've already read them on the forums), but looking for actual citations from actual studies, I have access to med journals, but haven't found anything yet in my search. If you have a citation, but not a website link, I can get to it if you'll provide it.

    I appreciate everyone's help in advance!

    Thanks!

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    The answer to your question is easy. If you don't use it, you lose it.

    Humans evolved to eat meat with fat, and when you go on a low fat vegan or vegetarian diet, your gall bladder is no longer used enough to stay healthy, and it starts filling up with sludge. The sludge eventually turns into gallstones.

    It is tough for vegetarians to switch over to a Paleo diet, which requires eating fat & meat. The answer is to SLOOOWLY transition the gallbladder back to good health by titrating coconut oil into meals over many months.

    Sorry, but no one is going to spend $$millions to scientifically prove this FACT that is common sense, and no one is going to spend $$millions to prove that a $25 liver detox works. The Medical Profession will not discuss Gallbladders. Doctors will just surgically remove your gallbladder without a second thought. There are methods of breaking up the gallstones using intense sound waves, but it is hard to find any doctors willing to do this. All the MONEY is made in surgeries, and that is what doctors will insist you to do. Save your gallbladder? The doctors will laugh at you. They want your MONEY for surgery and they want that hospital bed filled. They can't buy that vacation home by saving your Gallbladder.

    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 06-19-2012 at 08:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    The answer is to SLOOOWLY transition the gallbladder back to good health by titrating coconut oil into meals over many months.
    Grizz
    Thought MCTs do not require bile to be digested, why titrate?
    SW on 10/1/11: 380lbs.
    CW 12/13/12: 315lbs. (Was under 300#, added some muscle :-) )
    GW: 10% B.F. 250lbs. - 275lbs. (6' 4" tall)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorhead View Post
    Thought MCTs do not require bile to be digested, why titrate?
    These articles say coconut oil works to get bile out of the gallbladder
    Coconut Cures: Preventing and Treating Common Health Problems with Coconut - Bruce Fife - Google Books
    Bile and Gallstones

    You want to titrate slowly to get the stones out with minimal PAIN.

    What do you suggest?

    Grizz

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    Dr. Mary Eades explains it all here:

    Mary Dan Eades, M.D. Oh, the Gall of It All
    A Post-Primal PrimalPat

    Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

  6. #6
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    My N=1 did not involve a scalpel, found it in an old library book, thus I do not have a surgeon researched paper for you read, sorry.

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    Motorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    These articles say coconut oil works to get bile out of the gallbladder
    Coconut Cures: Preventing and Treating Common Health Problems with Coconut - Bruce Fife - Google Books
    Bile and Gallstones

    You want to titrate slowly to get the stones out with minimal PAIN.

    What do you suggest?

    Grizz
    The first link mentions coconut oil but does not explain how it gets into the gallbladder to dissolve the actual stones. It does support my claim that bile is not required to digest coconut oil though. The second link I could only find one reference of Coconut oil and it was contradictory...

    "Cutting Off the Bile Pipeline The saturated fat in dairy foods, meats, vegetable shortening, coconut oil, palm oil, and hydrogenated oils makes Bile more concentrated, says Elizabeth Lipski, a certified clinical nutritionist in Kauai, Hawaii. People who reduce the amount of fat and sugar in their diets while at the same time increasing fiber intake may be able to stop gallstone attacks because the Bile will be less concentrated, making stones less likely to form."

    Unfortunately since surgery is so easy now (Laparoscopy in most cases) and profitable, little research is being done and most of the information out there is observational from naturopaths selling beet extracts and herbal solutions. I agree that coconut oil may be beneficial to someone who has gallstones, or gallbladder removed, like me, but titration does not make sense since no bile is needed to digest it, why start slowly? Some people do have a GI issue with too much CO, maybe that is the true reason for it? I personally don't have a reaction to it, get no pains like when I overdue the animal fats (pork seems to be the worst for me)

    I would suggest titrating the animal fats, keeping the CO steady and monitor. Before and after having my gallbladder removed I seemed to have the most pain when changing my diet drastically, either LC or LF both caused issues. Now that I am steady with my diet, I only experience slight pain if I IF for too long and eat too much animal fats at my break-fast.

    To the OP, sorry for including my personal experience, and not having links to actual studies, but as mentioned there is not a lot out there that I have found, and it's going to be tough to get your friend to buck CW. I wish I would have found this site and way of eating before I had my gall bladder out. I have encouraged a few friends and relatives with Gall Bladder pain to seek more information about why they form and how the low-fat diet pushed by CW is really causing them. Good Luck.
    SW on 10/1/11: 380lbs.
    CW 12/13/12: 315lbs. (Was under 300#, added some muscle :-) )
    GW: 10% B.F. 250lbs. - 275lbs. (6' 4" tall)

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    I sucked up the pain for 2 weeks and then all the stones went by by. I am fine now and the doc was planning to have mine out. No need. It hurts but meh whats life without pain.
    Primal since April 2012 Male 6' 3" SW 345lbs CW 240lbs GW 220lbs and when I get there I am getting a utlikilt. This one http://www.utilikilts.com/company/pr...ilts/workmans/ actually.

    Join me at www.paleoplanet.net, where all the cavemen hang out.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warmbear View Post
    I sucked up the pain for 2 weeks and then all the stones went by by. I am fine now and the doc was planning to have mine out. No need. It hurts but meh whats life without pain.
    How did you get rid of them?

  10. #10
    Warmbear's Avatar
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    I ate fat and forced my gall bladder to work hard. It hurt, it hurt a lot. lots of pain meds, some pot and more pain. then it went away and no more issues.
    Primal since April 2012 Male 6' 3" SW 345lbs CW 240lbs GW 220lbs and when I get there I am getting a utlikilt. This one http://www.utilikilts.com/company/pr...ilts/workmans/ actually.

    Join me at www.paleoplanet.net, where all the cavemen hang out.

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