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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimInGA View Post
    Update: attempted 12-hour fast today, intending to go from 8:00 a.m. breakfast to 8:00 p.m. dinner. Total failure. Nausea hit me like a brick wall mid-afternoon. It got so bad I had exactly two choices: eat something or puke. I chose the former but of course had no food and could only scrounge up a single quarter so my choices were limited to the little spinning hand-crank vending thingie. Chiclets, sweet tarts, reece's pieces or M&Ms. I chose M&Ms. Sigh. Does this happen to anyone else??
    Don't get discouraged that you failed your first try. It will get easier as your body gets used to the higher protein and fat levels, which will do more to satiate you than carbs typically will and you'll be able to go longer periods without eating. Just remember... WHEN! When Hunger Ensues Naturally.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumroll View Post
    Don't get discouraged that you failed your first try. It will get easier as your body gets used to the higher protein and fat levels, which will do more to satiate you than carbs typically will and you'll be able to go longer periods without eating. Just remember... WHEN! When Hunger Ensues Naturally.
    Hmph. I've been eating like this for 9 months. My body must be a very slow learner. I haaaaaate being nauseated!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimInGA View Post
    Not too much, just walking briskly, going up/down stairs, and some light strength training like lunges and situps on an incline. When I was 16 I ran cross-country and had absolutely terrible stamina. Every day I ran 3-6 miles like everyone else but unlike my other team members my improvements in time & stamina were miniscule. Even after a whole season of training I could barely break an 8:30 mile which is pretty damn slow for a 16-yr-old who has been training for months! Anyway, the point of that is that this isn't something new, it's been this way my whole life and I'll be 31 this Saturday.
    Were you good at any other sports? You could just have more Type II fibers, which could be why you are not a good responder to endurance exercise and certainly explains a poor ability to burn fat in the absence of strength training. If that's the case I would make strength training a priority. Having more Type II fibers than Type I fibers would certainly mean a low number of mitochondria, and if you don't activate Type II muscle fibers they tend to convert from Type IIa (High mitochondria, good blood supply, and moderately insulin resistant) to Type IIx (Very few mitochondria, low blood supply, very insulin resistant). It would also help explain the lack of fat loss from an insulin resistance perspective, if you decide to cheat does your weight fluctuate a lot? I have no idea if you were ever insulin resistant or not, but you can't fix insulin resistance with diet alone. You need to get your muscles burning and storing more glycogen to make full improvements, diet cannot empty glycogen out of a cell, it can only prevent large insulin secretion via low carbohydrate consumption.

    You would need a full body program 2-3 times a week. For the best bang for your buck it should be low rep and high load. Start with 4 weeks of doing full body workouts for 3 sets of 12 and then switch it to 3 sets of 8. Your eventual goal should be to alternate 3 sets of 8 and 3 sets of 4 every other day. I bet that would provide significant improvements in energy levels and fatty acid oxidation.

  4. #34
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    Eat plenty of fat and IF every once in a while when you feel like it.

  5. #35
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    Oh, and for God's sake stop fasting. I personally fast and recommend it to clients who are on point, you don't even exercise and have a problem metabolizing fat. What do you think your body is going to use for fuel if you can't metabolize fat and you're on a low carb diet?
    Last edited by Dave Mayo; 06-20-2012 at 03:19 PM.

  6. #36
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    I am speculating here, but you just might have a case of glycogen storage disease type 0, which is a deficiency in the glycogen synthase enzyme. If this is the case, the you cannot synthesize glycogen in the liver and / or muscles, which means that under circumstances where your pancreas is secreting glucagon to stimulate your liver to release glucose into the blood stream, the liver cannot comply, since it lacks the glycogen storage form of the glucose.

    Now you may think that the circumstances under which your pancreas secretes glucagon are limited, but in fact, glucagon is secreted pretty much after every mixed meal, approximately 2 hours after ingestion. You eat, insulin is produced by the pancreas, this lowers blood sugar a bit too much, but the pancreas secretes glucagon shortly after the insulin to goose glucose levels back and maintain normoglycemia. There are only two types of meals that do not follow this pattern: high carbohydrate and pure fat.

    If you do have this pathology, fasting for you is a bad idea. During the first 24 hours of a fast, normal individuals are relying on stored glycogen for energy. If you don't have any glycogen to speak of, that is obviously only going to result in you going hypoglycemic. Further, there is simply no way for you to "train yourself" into releasing glucose to tide you over during your intermittent fasts ... your metabolism is simply incapable of this mode of operation.

    There is also another broader implication here. If you decide to train, and specifically, train by adopting conventional grok wisdom using sprints, you are dead meat ( exaggerating here ). Sprinting is an anaerobic activity meaning that it relies largely on fast twitch muscle which in turn relies heavily on glycolytic respiration. Which brings us back to the fact that folks with glycogen synthase disease don't have any glycogen to spare, which means that glycolysis is not going to go very far for them, and fatigue will set in much more quickly than for a normal individual. Training for such a person would be a challenge, and they would have to avoid short intense bursts of activity, instead relying on higher repetition ranges with lower weight and force output. Unfortunately, you are not off the hook with respect to endurance type activities either, because all muscle types rely on glycolysis for energy production to some extent, it's just that the fast twitch fibers do so much more extensively than the slow twitch. And, sadly, again, you cannot train your way out this.

    I do not have glycogen storage disease, but if did, I think that I would attempt to address it with a strict ketogenic diet, more akin to what is prescribed for severe epilepsy rather than the conventional "wrap everything in bacon" version. Basically, you want to eat extremely high fat, moderate protein, low carb. I think your ratios would be something along 70/20/10 at least. The basic idea is to avoid meals that require a compensatory glucagon release, which pretty much puts a limit on protein which is quite insulinogenic. High carbohydrate diets would be a problem because one of the primary disposal pathways, synthesis of glycogen in the liver and muscles is simply impossible ... people with glycogen storage disease simply cannot carbo load!

    If you were eating a strict ketogenic diet, meal frequency would not be much of an issue for you.

    Lastly, though, keep in mind that the incidence of this disease is fairly low, I think on the order of 1 in 25000 people has it. However, this low incidence rate may be due to inadequate diagnostic tests and or medical awareness. But again, that is more speculation on my part. You might want to run this by your doctor.

    Hope you sort it out. If you do decide to go the ketogenic route, let us know how you make out.

    -PK
    Last edited by pklopp; 06-20-2012 at 06:00 PM.
    My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimInGA View Post
    Hmph. I've been eating like this for 9 months. My body must be a very slow learner. I haaaaaate being nauseated!
    Oftentimes, nausea is not from hunger but from an imbalance of proper nutrition. If one gets that in check, then certainly it will make IFing easier.

    Not saying that that is what happened or anything, it's just one more possibility to investigate.

  8. #38
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    Pklopp, I've heard of that and didn't even consider it! Yes, that would mean she'd have to severely restrict carbs and even protein. I agree with you on that one. Wow, totally fell of the bandwagon with this one. Though, I think you're right about the infrequency of occurrence. Still, it couldn't hurt to be tested with these symptoms...

  9. #39
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    If you're struggling with energy and these sorts of issues, then intermittent fasting would be the last thing I'd do.
    How is your sleep and sunlight? Might you be deficient in something else (i.e. a micro, not macro-nutrient)?

  10. #40
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    You may need to play with your ratios, and greatly increase your fat intake while lowering your carb intake. You may never have reached low enough levels to completely transition.
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