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  1. #51
    Scott F's Avatar
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    Oh for crying out loud. I'm not worried about eating sardines and liver. I make it point to eat liver every week. We are talking about stuff that can/will increase uric acid if you eat too much too often. That tollernce is going to be different for everyone. Your age will make a difference. I know people in late their 40s to 60s who get gout and they tell me that they have to careful not to eat too much liver sausage.

    Prolonged high uric acid can lead to heart disease https://www.google.com/search?q=high...&client=safari

    You guys can do what you want. I want to know the biochemistry in making my nutritional choices

  2. #52
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    Purines exacerbate a problem with a separate underlying root cause. Avoid the root cause and purines are nothing to worry about at all. This kind of dependency is a common theme in nutrition.
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

  3. #53
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by paleo-bunny View Post
    Purines exacerbate a problem with a separate underlying root cause. Avoid the root cause and purines are nothing to worry about at all. This kind of dependency is a common theme in nutrition.
    And just what does that mean? Are you a nutritionist/biochemist?

    The Root Causes of Gout
    "Even though a gout attack may come on suddenly—like a volcano erupting—its underlying cause may always be there bubbling below the surface. The underlying cause is an excess of a waste product in your blood called uric acid. Many people have excess uric acid—and most of them do not get gout. But if you have periodic gout attacks, research has shown that your risk of having future episodes goes up with the level of uric acid in your blood." But like I posted further up the thread, using a google search to med journals, keeping uric acid high is believed to increase heart and cardiovascular disease.

    I see this too often from poster on this forum. People come in here asking for advice and others are willing to give it...which is great. But often, the questions being asked, esp. by someone new to Primal/Paleo nutrition, are medically related. Yet people with no medical background are giving advice as if they are some authority. There's nothing wrong with leading someone in a direction who is asking such questions so long as it's being backed up with a link to an authority.

    "Where is the following link incorrect about purines and uric acid: Uric acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Uric acid is a product of the metabolic breakdown of purine nucleotides. High blood concentrations of uric acid can lead to a type of arthritis known as gout. The chemical is associated with other medical conditions including diabetes and the formation of ammonium acid urate kidney stones."

    "Biology
    The enzyme xanthine oxidase makes uric acid from xanthine and hypoxanthine, which in turn are produced from other purines. Xanthine oxidase is a large enzyme whose active site consists of the metal, molybdenum, bound to sulfur and oxygen.[8] Within cells, xanthine oxidase can exist as xanthine dehydrogenase and xanthine oxireductase, which has also been purified from bovine milk and spleen extracts.[9] Uric acid is released in hypoxic conditions.[10]"

    And Dr Johnson talks about the following quote in his book: Serum uric acid is an antioxidant but cellular uric acid is an oxidant that affects mitochondria ability to produce ATP. He hypothesizes that humans loosing the uricase, which destroys uric acid, and the ability to synthesize ascorbic acid, Vitamin C, was an adaptation to turning on what he calls "the fat switch"

    "In humans and higher primates, uric acid is the final oxidation (breakdown) product of purine metabolism and is excreted in urine. In most other mammals, the enzyme uricase further oxidizes uric acid to allantoin.[11] The loss of uricase in higher primates parallels the similar loss of the ability to synthesize ascorbic acid, leading to the suggestion that urate may partially substitute for ascorbate in such species.[12] Both uric acid and ascorbic acid are strong reducing agents (electron donors) and potent antioxidants. In humans, over half the antioxidant capacity of blood plasma comes from uric acid.[13]"


    It isn't hard to research this stuff:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=uric...w=1920&bih=933

    Food and Health Rethought • How fructose and HFCS increase uric acid and give you high blood pressure
    "How Does Your Body Produce Uric Acid?
    It’s a byproduct of cellular breakdown. As cells die off, DNA and RNA degrade into chemicals called purines. Purines are further broken down into uric acid.

    Fructose increases uric acid through a complex process that causes cells to burn up their ATP rapidly, leading to “cell shock” and increased cell death. After eating excessive amounts of fructose, cells become starved of energy and enter a state of shock, just as if they have lost their blood supply. Massive cellular die-off leads to increased uric acid levels.

    According to Dr. Johnson1, sugar activates its own pathways in your body—those metabolic pathways become “upregulated.” In other words, the more sugar you eat, the more effective your body is in absorbing it; and the more you absorb, the more damage you’ll do."
    Last edited by Scott F; 10-07-2012 at 01:16 PM.
    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

  5. #55
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    See, I listen/read others links. If you go to the southern tip of South America you find Native South Americans eating a lot of the same. But is that ideal? This entire video is an epidemiological opinion. She presents no biochemistry and because the video does not, Matt Lalonde would not consider it science. He says epidemiology is great for formulating a hypothesis but then that hypothesis must be tested using "core sciences" such as (bio)chemistry. That's why he is so critical of people into paleo who take the position that "just because our ancestors ate it, it then follows that it must be good for us too." Maybe, maybe not? And note what she says at minutes 5:45 to 5:55. She telling the interviewer that "just like you need orange juice, just like you need milk, just like you want to have whole grains, you have to have some fish. It was always in your diet and when you remove it from your diet there are consequences." Ok so what are those consequences? She doesn't mention them....and do you agree with her that we "need" orange juice, milk, and should "want" to eat whole grains?
    Last edited by Scott F; 10-07-2012 at 01:14 PM.
    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

  6. #56
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    I suggest since there isn't enough science that you simply avoid all seafood. The oceans are over-fished anyway.
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  7. #57
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    Kresser interviewing Matt Lalonde Jun 2012 on why Paleo diet arguments need to be based on experimental science, not simply epidemiology observations. If you are going to make Paleo diet claims about then justify it with an appeal to a relavent authority
    http://chriskresser.com/rhr-what-sci...th-mat-lalonde
    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

  8. #58
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    I forgot who was curious about if the olive oil in canned sardines with olive oil is real. Last week, when the thread was current I tossed a can of TJ's sardine fillets in OO into the fridge. Today I opened them and they appear to pass the test, the oil did look cloudy with clumps of solidified fat.

    I've opened many of these cans at room temps and not seen that before. So while hardly conclusive, the oil did pass the refrigerator test.

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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott F View Post
    And just what does that mean? Are you a nutritionist/biochemist?
    Graduate in biochemistry from Oxford University.

    What are your credentials?
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    I did not know the smaller Brisling sardines were the lesser kind. They are usually more expensive. I bought some of every kind to try this week. I am bummed to see the squid in ink are also in sunflower oil. I wonder why there is so much more variety of tinned fish at the Mexican market? Are there any good Latin recipes for sardines?
    Which is better is a matter of taste. Most true aficionados of Sardines prefer the Mediterranean variety, but that doesn't mean all do. Brisling have the advantage with the general consumer in three areas. First, they are smaller. Second, they have a much, much more attractive physical appearance. Mediterranean sardines sometimes look like cat food. Brisling Sardines look more like the way cat food looks in cartoons. Third, they have a milder, more neutral taste and smell. In terms of health there is really no difference. Just make sure they are packed in EVO and buy whichever style and brand tastes the best to you.

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