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Thread: Vegan "Transformations"--Simply from Cutting The Junk...or?... page 4

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KathyH View Post
    I don't know who Silverstone is so can't comment on her and her diet but you are generalizing.
    The comment thread in question is specifically referring to someone who is following Silverstone's "Kind Diet", which is vegan. Having been someone who read the book in question and knows of the website, I responded to the original poster's question of why that diet might have helped this individual. This was very obvious from reading my post, as well as the OP.

    I've read many vegan diet books, and many vegan cookbooks. They all trend toward sweet and carby. All of them. If that's a generalization, then guilty as charged.

    Quote Originally Posted by KathyH View Post
    You said that a vegan diet (especially the one Silverstone prescribes) is going to be higher on the carb scale and lower in the things that are most likely to bring satiation to most people: namely, fat and proteins.
    Seriously, you can speak on a behalf of the whole world's population??? Because fat and proteins satisfy you doesn't mean they satisfy the rest of the 7 billion people. Your cultural eating habits might be totally different than other humans. You know what most humans crave??? WOW, I am impressed.
    I'm sure there are some humans who are wired to feel more satiation from carbs. But on the whole, yes, most of us feel fuller faster when we eat high amounts of protein, followed by high amounts of fat.

    Not sure what your issue is with that statement. Would you like to explain, or continue to exhibit troll-like behavior? It's your choice. If the latter, I'll be ignoring you shortly...but I always like to be nice and give people a chance.

  2. #32
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    The sheer quantity and diversity of nutrients can't even be debated because you're eating a wider variety of foods when you include meat, poultry, seafood, eggs and even dairy.

    The quality of them may be something people choose to debate, but I don't really see a good argument, and I've been listening to them for years. Being able to debate something doesn't make it a good debate.
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  3. #33
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    Uhh ANY diet where you HAVE to supplement is not optimal, so veganism would fall under that. The only reason I "have" to supplement anything on the primal diet is bc I can't safely eat fish everyday anymore. I am impressed that everyone in here is displaying so much patience with KathyH, this would be frustrating to me. Seems like just being ridiculous to tick everyone off.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosencrantz1 View Post
    Furthermore, I think it's a valid question to ask "What *is* healthy?" -- what do we *mean* when we use that word? Is someone who lives disease-free, but dies at 75 *healthier* than someone who is sickly, but makes it to 90?
    This does not make sense to me. Someone who dies at 75 dies of something...and if they die of something then they aren't that healthy, are they? I mean unless they're j-walking and get hit by a bus, or they're out hiking and they become cougar food.

    Quote Originally Posted by KathyH View Post
    Are you talking about "good" nutrition or just any nutrition?
    Isn't nutrition by its very definition good? What is bad nutrition? "I ate this apple today and it was full of bad nutrition." Or, "my steak had just any old nutrition you can think of!"
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by onalark View Post
    The comment thread in question is specifically referring to someone who is following Silverstone's "Kind Diet", which is vegan. Having been someone who read the book in question and knows of the website, I responded to the original poster's question of why that diet might have helped this individual. This was very obvious from reading my post, as well as the OP.

    I've read many vegan diet books, and many vegan cookbooks. They all trend toward sweet and carby. All of them. If that's a generalization, then guilty as charged.
    I am sorry, you are right you were specifically talking about Silverstone's diet.
    But because you have read vegan cookbooks it doesn't mean all vegans eat that way or have the same cravings. I can give you many Italian cookbooks that do not represent Italian cooking. The books are far from what people eat in Italy. It is the authors' individual take on a given diet. So, yes you are creating false assumptions therefore generalizing based on vegan books you read but not based on what some vegans eat. I know many vegans and they all eat completely different things. I thought they all eat fake meat substitutions, tofu and vegan cupcakes, but I was wrong, that's not to say that some vegans don't eat that crap. Just like some Paleo people will eat industrially raised and processed meat. Vegan, Paleo and other diets are very diverse and oversimplifying types of diets gives them a bad rep. Instead of broadening our horizons about all nutrition and diet, one gets sucked into debates that seem to be favoring one diet over the other without much of a credence and that's my pet peeve. Again, there is no perfect diet, no Paleo, no vegan.

    Quote Originally Posted by onalark View Post
    I'm sure there are some humans who are wired to feel more satiation from carbs. But on the whole, yes, most of us feel fuller faster when we eat high amounts of protein, followed by high amounts of fat.

    Not sure what your issue is with that statement. Would you like to explain, or continue to exhibit troll-like behavior? It's your choice. If the latter, I'll be ignoring you shortly...but I always like to be nice and give people a chance.
    The issue I have with that statement is that you say MOST of us feel fuller faster when we eat high amounts of protein, followed by high amounts of fat. Who is most of us? Paleo people?? Mankind in general? Or are you referring to a given culture? You sound authoritarian in making your assumptions.
    I am only questioning your stance on presumed authority as you seem to be speaking on behalf of a large group of people and I am not sure what that group is.
    If that's trolling then perhaps the definition of trolling should be amended.

  6. #36
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    When I was vegan, I was often very satisfied with my diet. It was whole, diverse, and delicious.

    It was my health -- excessively low cholesterol which is genetic/biological -- that made it not possible to remain vegan.

    what did my diet look like?

    In the am, I would often have a smoothie that either coconut water/cream and/or home made macadamia nut cream with frozen berries. It was probably coming in around 500 calories.

    At lunch time, I would often have a BAS with sprouted beans, seeds, and possibly chopped nuts, plus olive oil/vinegar dressing.

    At dinner time, I would often soup, salad or some veggie dish. The soup usually included potato, sweet potato, or pumpkin, oil, etc. I would also usually have some kind of beans at this meal (usually some form of dahl) several times a week (maybe every-other day).

    And then I would have some fruit later as a dessert.

    I also enjoyed a lot of dips (hummus, nut pates, bean dips, etc) which I would often eat with "raw crackers" or corn chips.

    Honestly, everything was fine -- truly. I was perfectly satisfied, my weight/body fat percentage was good, I was happy and healthy. I was eating between 1800-2000 calories per day on average (i now eat between 1500-1800, usually sitting around 1600-1700). But, the cholesterol got me in the end -- the genetics.

    If I hadn't had that cholesterol problem, I probably would still be vegan.
    Last edited by zoebird; 06-16-2012 at 09:05 PM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojohaligo View Post
    Isn't nutrition by its very definition good? What is bad nutrition? "I ate this apple today and it was full of bad nutrition." Or, "my steak had just any old nutrition you can think of!"
    Is mercury laden tuna good nutrition or bad nutrition? Is an apple coated with 7 different pesticides good nutrition or bad nutrition? Is a wild boar hunted in Bohemia loaded with radioactive isotopes good nutrition or bad nutrition?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by RitaRose View Post
    The sheer quantity and diversity of nutrients can't even be debated because you're eating a wider variety of foods when you include meat, poultry, seafood, eggs and even dairy.

    The quality of them may be something people choose to debate, but I don't really see a good argument, and I've been listening to them for years. Being able to debate something doesn't make it a good debate.
    I am only talking about quality alone. I see a good argument, but you don't, so we will have to agree to disagree.
    "Being able to debate something doesn't make it a good debate" - in your subjective opinion, you forgot to state that.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by codered5 View Post
    Uhh ANY diet where you HAVE to supplement is not optimal, so veganism would fall under that. The only reason I "have" to supplement anything on the primal diet is bc I can't safely eat fish everyday anymore. I am impressed that everyone in here is displaying so much patience with KathyH, this would be frustrating to me. Seems like just being ridiculous to tick everyone off.
    By the premise of being on this forum I have to agree with everyone? I question generalizations and opinions of others. Sorry this doesn't suit your patience.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by KathyH View Post
    And how different is that from people who are on Paleo and come to this forum, post about not feeling good and the answers are, you don't eat enough fat or not enough protein or your ratios are wrong etc etc. Same thing.
    It's similar except that, the failure rate of raw veganism seems to be a lot higher, and that this forum seems to be open, not moderated by nazis who modify the posts of anybody who is having trouble on the diet/lifestyle. There is more openness to discussion about the truth of things not working here, than on somewhere like 30 Bananas a Day. Vegans tend to be more fanatical and have more agendas to defend, in my experience.

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