Do You Take Matt Stone Seriously? page 3

[PaleoLogicCheck]

why are you here if you think Matt Stone is SOOO knowledgeable? You are in the wrong place.

The only way any of us are going to attain a better understanding of our health is by taking it all in. Mark and Matt both the speak the truth, and their messages are really a lot more complementary than they might appear at first glance.

Example: thanks to their 'opposing' viewpoints on carb consumption, I think I've really come to a better understanding about it - something that neither one of them 'gets' yet, but ironically something that they both have 'kind of/sort of' pointed out. And I, like them, self experiment with these priniciples. I'll know in a short time if my 'new and better understanding' about carb consumption actually holds water or not. But so far so good.

[shannon]

Can you spare a fellow grok some reading time and share what the 'symptoms' of low carb/vlc are according to MS? What symptoms did you actually experience?

well at first (under 100g/carb) i felt wonderful. almost high and euphoric. nothing could touch me! then about a few mos. later my energy started to drag. should i lower my carbs? i mean lowering my carbs worked to begin with. why not? lowered 'em to about 50g and of course felt that awesome low carb love once again. didn't last long. same thing happened except this time my libido and mood were effected. shoot! how could it be??? lowered 'em even more to about 20g, atkins style. dry eyes, dry cough, new symptoms of allergies (never had), skin losing it's glow, pms back, and the worst...stomach issues returning. ugh! how could my gut be feeling bad?! i haven't eaten grains/sugar/legumes in SO long! i was developing food sensitivities to onion/garlic, egg, and fruit. never in my life have i been sensitive to these foods! i was avoiding them because i was trying to lower my carbs. i figured that the more you avoid a food that you're NOT sensitive to the weirder your body reacts when you do eat it. i was snapping at everyone about everything! talk about caveman attitude. if i had a club...
one last symptom i'd like to mention-cardiac issues. they may have been related to thyroid/adrenal fatigue. not sure. scared the shiz outta me though. woke up one night w my heart beating out of my chest (panic attack style but worse) and i HAD to vomit. puked but my heart kept racing and i was heavily sweating. sat down at the computer trying to figure out what was going on (i suggest someone to go to the e.r.). i looked at the clock and it was around 3:30am. classic cortisol time. anyways, i started craving oj and bananas. yuck! i hate sugar!! i was going flippin' crazy. thank god my hubby still ate these foods. went in the fridge and downed a jug of oj and stuffed in a few bananas. slowly but surely i was able to go to bed. i was killing myself. no doubt. i had a few more puking episodes w a racing heart. read matt stone and bam! i knew my metabolism was getting funked up. mark sisson says staying in keto for too long WILL mess w the metabolism. i didn't listen because it felt so good. damn ketones! added some sweet taterz and fruit and now i'm good to go. please be safe. i do believe that lack of carbs is VERY stressful to our bodies (even if we CAN do it), especially to someone w weak adrenals/thyroid. btw, all those symptoms above have been reversed w the addition of paleo/primal carbs
one other symptom i forgot. gallbladder issues. it WASN'T the fat, i assure you!! apparently i was so very low on vit. c that i was starting to get scurvy symptoms. i'm not a pirate!! i was eating my bell peppers and veggies that had vit. c. eating fruit took away the spasms almost instantly. all i know is that i have been through the diet ringer and counting macronutrients does not work for this chick.

[shannon]

I'd be interested to hear about your problems on VLC, I've just read 'The Art and Science of Low Carb living' and 'The Paleo Answer', both great books, and put a very good case acroos to VLC, especially the art and science book.
A few problems they say people may encounter is eating too much protien, as this doesnt allow the fat burning to kick in, and maybe more importantly making sure to up the salt intake, as the body dumps sodium on LC.
I've gone low carb(50g ish a day) since reading these books, and feel good so far. Just have to make sure you get lots of good fats.
Cheers

dude, i was the queen of fat!! ate at least 10 TB of coconut oil a day on top of the fat from my pastured piggy lard, olive oil, chicken and beef trimmings. i recommended the same thing when i was starting out. eat more fat!! that's not always the issue.

[shannon]

Can you spare a fellow grok some reading time and share what the 'symptoms' of low carb/vlc are according to MS? What symptoms did you actually experience?

wow. so sorry for the long rant. those were the symptoms I experienced. matt stone lists these symptoms when low carbing too long:
headaches
dry mouth/eyes
allergies
loss of libido
stomach issues returning
low body temp (i went from 96F vlc to 99F paleo carbs)
pms OR loss of menstruation
moodiness
fatigue
body odor
bad breath
poor glucose control
insulin resistance
panic attacks
dry hair (thyroid)
low blood pressure (adrenal)
and lots more. those are just the ones i can remember.

[Grumpycakes]

I really appreciate Matt Stone for his contrarian viewpoints. Like Shannon, reading his stuff helped me to overcome carbophobia. For everyone who is offended by him or thinks he is dangerous, remember what a good teacher does. When he sees that you are living at one extreme end of thinking, he stresses the other extreme so that you can find a stable middle ground. I think he would be the first to say that he doesn't want you to do exactly what he says.

I'm amused by backlash against him, as though this whole paleo/PB thing weren't considered oddball and dangerous just a few years ago. Back then, before it appeared on the public radar, it took someone with an open and critical mind to adapt the lifestyle. Key word is adapt. These days, all I see are people who want specific directions to follow, and who rage without much thought at notions that go against conventional wisdom, which around here is the paleo CW. Same shit, different pile. Keep your renegade spirit strong, if you have one.

[shannon]

^yes!

[Catharsis]

I spent two years on an extremely low carb diet. It's a GREAT way to destroy your metabolism, damage your thyroid and lose a ton of muscle mass. Gooooooooo VLC Team!

Paleo is not "low carb", just lower carb and cleaner carb than SAD. Oh, and yes, this Matt Stone dude certainly looks like a hack.

[sbhikes]

So why does everyone think there can only be one way or the other. That if you go low carb you have to go low carb forever. And if you get negative issues you have to pull a 180 (pun intended) and ditch low carb forever and go around religiously telling people to stuff potatoes and bananas into their mouths. Low carb is a therapeutic tool for your toolbox. Seeing as how most regions have seasonal fluctuations in what is available to eat, it totally makes sense to spend some time low carb and some time high carb. Even bananas don't fruit all year long.

[MN_John]

I've gone up to a year on very low carbs without major issues; I've known others who were on it much longer. I think its difficult to get proper nutrition on a very low carb diet, major supplementation is necessary. Without supplements you're living on the edge, any illness or can start a domino effect of nutritional illnesses. People can expect rather dramatic swings in energy levels and a bunch of minor issues.

The Primal Diet doesn't have this issue, if you are eating a lot of low carb vegetables and fruit (being reasonable about the carb intake), you should be getting enough vitamins, minerals, etc. This will help you avoid the crashes often experienced with Atkins. Personally, I still take a lot of nutrients, its an insurance hack. I've also experienced (in the past, not on Primal) IBS and SIBO so I have to be careful to get enough nutrients (having been previously deficient).

Smoothies have been my friend. I load them up with good nutrition and good taste (using Kal brand stevia for a sweetener). Spinach, protein powder, strawberries, blueberries, mango, cantaloupe, virgin coconut oil, etc. Yummy!

[Neckhammer]

So why does everyone think there can only be one way or the other. That if you go low carb you have to go low carb forever. And if you get negative issues you have to pull a 180 (pun intended) and ditch low carb forever and go around religiously telling people to stuff potatoes and bananas into their mouths. Low carb is a therapeutic tool for your toolbox. Seeing as how most regions have seasonal fluctuations in what is available to eat, it totally makes sense to spend some time low carb and some time high carb. Even bananas don't fruit all year long.

Low carb will rape your daughters and burn down your house! But, seriously its actually great. I can't say what living VLC for extended periods does for me cause I never skipped a weekend of beer, pizza, and wings. Just went back to VLC when the saturday night funs was over.

I have read the book "Art and Science of Low Carb Living"....it was good. I've also read "Perfect Health Diet" which tries to make a case for required glucose....Makes sense to me to base intake on HIGH INTENSITY EXERCISE level. Since I do this only twice a week LC is just fine as glycogen can take its time refilling between boughts without me force feeding on tators and rice.